No performance advantage. This is only for fuel mileage, and you wont see anything unless its 100% factory.

If you had bothered to search, you would find the manual transmission-equipped cars have a factory wideband, making it a pain in the butt to find adapters.


Best bet for performance is to source a d16y8 harness, intake manifold, OBD2 a or b to OBD1 conversion, and chip a P28 to run it properly. Lean burn mode will be disabled.

d16y5 intake manifold APPEARS Y8, but is sufficating. The power increase over a d16y7 is ONLY because its a plenum design. a healthy d16y7 with a d16y8 intake manifold will make more power, and get better gas mileage since lean burn mode will be disabled on Y5

 

Yes you can but for what?
Your need to convert the wideband o2 to a narrowbrand.
And then make a map since there isnt any out there that are eaily downloaded.

Also this has been done before.

 

And then make a map since there isnt any out there that are eaily downloaded.

Also this has been done before.

who has done it?? and where are they so I can pick their brain???



The only difference to run a D16Y8 basemap on a D16Y5 should be VTEC engagement, correct?

 

Out of curiosity why would you need to remove the wideband? I mean you might have to move some wires around but crome can handle a wideband in place of a narrow band o2 sensor...

 

Yea true. But it normally has to be rewired and most just replace it with a narrowband.
And the wodebamd ot uses i believe is a 0 to 3.7v. Vs the normal wb of 0 to 5v.

But ya as you said you can rewire it and keep it for crome.

 

I believe crome gives you the option to rescale the voltage for a wideband, so you might have to borrow a wideband with known values to calibrate the stock honda one, but that doesnt sound to hard.

Overall I wouldnt toss out the stock wideband unless there was a really good reason to.

 

True, but imo. Its 10times easier to swap in a stock narrowband and just add a wideband setup. Easier way your still need to rewire the hardness for a 4 wire sensor vs the 5wire wideband.
And
Like you said your need to find the afr voltage offset.

But thats just IMO.

 

Dont you guys think if people were able to make use of a factory wideband they would have propvisions for it? Its something no one has deemed worthwhile in 20 years of these cars being around.

Like I said earlier, swap to a Y8 foundation, then convert to P28 for tuning.

 

People used to use the stock honda wideband. It used to be one of the cheapest options available. I think prices on other widebands have come down so much that it just really isnt as big a deal.

 

The biggest issue is that there is no code left with whatever you are using to actually correctly utilize the factory wieband, which would be better than nearly anything aftermarket under about $300.

 

I Know, I Know, "swap a Y8"... I understand what parts are the limiting factors to the D16Y5


So this is what i have picked up from you guys so far...

Need a 4 wire O2 sensor, pre-cat, to work with the chipped P28

But adding a wideband controller like the LC-2 would be necessary as well but would not replace the 4 wire required for the ECU.

Got that right?


So the absolute minimum requirement to run the P28 are:

obd2a-obd1
Crome
LC-2
4 wire pre-cat O2 sensor

am I missing something?

 

That would work, but although I havent used crome recently I was under the impression you coukd use a wideband instead of a narrowband and custom scale the wideband to have it read accurately.

So unless I am missing something, and I might be, it should be possible to make a p28 and crome work with just a wire adapter and maybe moving a wire or two around.

Or does the stock honda wideband require a control board to work with a p28? I honestly dont remember....

 

i have boosted a d16y5 but im not positive on how the egr and lean burn work, it seems you could use an ouput in crome to control the egr valve and make it function still with a chipped ecu. the lean burn seems like you can just tune it into the vacuum area of the map like russell did to get 68mpg.

 

I think I found some info on which wires are what.

Anyone made an adapter(male 5 wire to female 4 wire)?

It's been done and no one posted results anywhere?

I remember bensebuilt had a d16y5 build somewhere on HT. As far as I can remember he didn't do too bad...




What basemap did you use Blu3?
VTEC engagement?
What turbo? Stock internals and head?

 

I would probably go with a Y8 Mani to delete the EGR or not, now I know that's possible as well.

Wouldn't lean burn be gone anyway because it wouldn't be the D16y5 basemap??

Who's Russell and where is the thread? Thanks good info!

 

Simplest way to install a 4 wire O2 sensor?
Y8 harness?
Or splice?

 

Changing from 5 to 4 wires..... I would just splice.

 

Sac, when I say swap to a Y8 foundation, I mean wiring and intake manifold

the Y8 harness and such wont support the EGR, and it would be a hinderance on potential performance and gas mileage.

You can cheap out on the Y8 intake manifold (you can swap your fuel rail and injectors and throttlebody onto it). Make sure its a 96-98 variety because of those air injection holes on 99-00. Check the back of your current manifold to see if the IACV is on it. If not, make sure you buy an AUTOMATIC d16y8 intake manifold. If IACV IS on your manifold, buy the MANUAL d16y8 manifold.

once you have the manifold and harness figured out, you can grab the ecu harness conversion, a chipped P28, and be one major step closer to having some real fun with your car.

 

honestly i couldnt tell you because i got it tuned on the dyno, i knew nothing on how to tune and i didnt have an ostrich at the time to look at the maps. chad barber tuned my hx and the way he tuned it vtec kicked in like a b16, you could hear it loud and clear (i believe it kicked in around 5500rpm).

right on I want to tune my own but that is in progress with lots of learning and experience and work still ahead...


To Anyone, Is the ostrich necessary to read and write to the chip??

i was running a completely stock d16y5, only thing that was upgraded were the fuel injectors to 525cc. it had stock head and manifold with the egr and i was running a ramhorn turbo manifold with a garrett t3 60 trim .42/.48.

no problems from the EGR??
How was the cam? produce good curves??

here is rrussells thread about getting 70mpg turbo I did some FE testing 64.8mpg

thanks for the link, i read a little of his thread its really good...
I also peeked at your build thread but didnt read it all.
still have that car/setup?

Sac, when I say swap to a Y8 foundation, I mean wiring and intake manifold

Thanks for the clarification. That makes sense.

the Y8 harness and such wont support the EGR, and it would be a hinderance on potential performance and gas mileage.

Cant CROME just "turn off" the EGR, even though it is present(in stock setup)??

You can cheap out on the Y8 intake manifold (you can swap your fuel rail and injectors and throttlebody onto it). Make sure its a 96-98 variety because of those air injection holes on 99-00. Check the back of your current manifold to see if the IACV is on it. If not, make sure you buy an AUTOMATIC d16y8 intake manifold. If IACV IS on your manifold, buy the MANUAL d16y8 manifold.

What is the importance of the IACV when it comes to the tune??
I have an IACV on my intake.

once you have the manifold and harness figured out, you can grab the ecu harness conversion, a chipped P28, and be one major step closer to having some real fun with your car.

Thanks for the help that is the end result i'm looking for.

 

when you say intake, I assume its on the back of the intake manifold.

so your search will consist of the following

D16Y8 manual 96-98 harness (double check auctions. Some sellers are idiots and list it as 96-00 fitment. MESSAGE SELLER FOR CLARIFICATION

D16y8 manual intake manifold 96-98
[*] a few users on this forum do have 99-00 DIY air hole plugging [*]

OBD2A-OBD1 vtec ecu conversion. SOME (aka VERY few) converters are specific nonvtec or vtec. MOST have the wiring included. ALSO pay attention to features that may require wire repinning, as there are 3 wire IACV and 2 wire IACV, and not all converter harness adapters are created equally!

new Denso O2 sensor. search specifically for any 96-00 civic DX, LX, EX, or 99-00 SI. there are variants for hodnas, whether female plug or male plug sensors. Male referring to sensor having the pins.

P28 ecu. a stock unchipped one will NOT run properly until timing is reset to adjust for the 4 degree difference.

 

I do not own my 96 hx anymore, I was rearended and gave it to insurance and got my current civic sedan. An ostrich is not used to write to a chip, the ostrich replaces the chip and give you tuning on the fly so you don't have to keep burning chips

 

New direction with tuning

So my new findings have lead me to the conclusion that I will be using a Demon v2 and Neptune RTP for tuning.

so necessary parts to start tuning what I have now is:
1. ECU w/ socket to run the Demon v2 is there necessary hardware to be soldered to the board??? I know a P05/P06 would need vtec components soldered in as well as a 28 pin socket, and PWM for boost in the future. anything else for the demon v2???
(If i use a P05/6 i need to add vtec/socket/PWM and their respective components is that all?) $100-180

2. OBD2A-OBD1 Adapter (re-pin necessary wires) $25

3. 4 wire O2 sensor SPLICED because I see NO reason to swap harnesses. Neptune has many functions to use EGR, Knock, etc. or not to use them... any reason to switch harnesses I'm not seeing??? Yes I plan on buying/building and definitely using a detonation sensor of some sort, if the y8 harness and adding the knock sensor from there is the simplest/easiest way then i have found the reason for the harness otherwise I'll pin one into my harness or wire an external one... input on this is much appreciated. I find it interesting that Honda didn't use a knock sensor on the y5 but they did on the y8 but my guess is the wideband o2 replaces the need for a knock sensor?? $TBD(~$75)

4. Innovative MTX-L (price is very close to the LC-2 but the MTX has better features) $170

5. Demon v2/Neptune RTP combo $400

6. Walbro 255lph $100

7. y8 240cc injectors to learn ~$60

8.I might be overlooking some of the other small things at the moment but this seems like a complete list...:fingersx:

Sorry for the redundancy...

 

why the heck do you need a walbro 255? drop it from your list, especially since you have stock injectors listed. walbro 255 is only useful for e85 fuel users running big power. If power is in teh future, a walbro 190 is perfectly acceptable and if you limit yourself to only pump gas, will never be a bottleneck

swap engine harnesses. prevent the potential BS of merging harnesses happening. d16y8 obd2a harnesses are always under $150 for good ones on ebay. Just ignore some of the idiotic salvage yards that simply do a percentage of dealership prices (like some of the dicktards that wanna charge $300 for a pair of front knuckles)

Research a bit more on socketing. If you have some dexterity with your hands and fingers, soldering up your own setup will save you quite a bit of money. Plus you get the benefit of knowing exactly whats up with the ecu, it allows you some confidence to upgrade compontents (these ecu's can make good use of some improvements, like capacitors)

 

Walbro 255lph for the future boost plans and i actually was going to try tuning with e85 considering it is readily available in Sacramento...


As for the harness, not sure what you mean with merging harnesses...(re-pinning wires???) but I have plenty of wiring harness experience so I see NO reason to buy one... And I'm running the engine/head combo for this harness, that just makes sense to me...

as for the socketing of the ecu... I've looked on ebay for the parts to do it and they are cheap but I need a soldering/desoldering kit $25 and an ECU $20-30 and all the components so that is right about $100 or the cost of a socketed ECU on EBAY so im still debating whether to do it myself or buy one. if i make a mistake it adds to the cost...

sooooo then I'm on the right track besides that we don't agree on the harness?

 

I personally have had bad experience buying chipped ecu's off the internet.

I learned that it is much better to buy off a forum like DSO as it makes for guaranteeing a better item (and better work since everyone on it knows your existance lol)

a walbro 190 on e85 will still support over 350whp quite easily, FYI

I guess I am against running much higher fuel pressure unless you use injectors that enjoy it (like rdx injectors. 410-500cc output pending pressure, and tehy are stable over 60psi)

 

I personally have had bad experience buying chipped ecu's off the internet.

I learned that it is much better to buy off a forum like DSO as it makes for guaranteeing a better item (and better work since everyone on it knows your existance lol)

good to know your experience wasn't the greatest. There are a few ECUs on CL I can probably pick up for around $20 (P05s) I might try to get one Monday. I do want to solder my own ECU.

a walbro 190 on e85 will still support over 350whp quite easily, FYI

I guess I am against running much higher fuel pressure unless you use injectors that enjoy it (like rdx injectors. 410-500cc output pending pressure, and tehy are stable over 60psi)

good to know a 190lph can handle that power, but as for price its the about the same.

What can the stock fuel rail handle for psi when adding a 255lph?

 

The fuel rail can handle as much as anyone has ever pushed thru a d-series. The pressure regulator is the big problem. It cannot flow enough for a 255lph, so your idle pressure goes insane and makes tuning a nightmare. The 255's are also very noisey vs the 190 (I've had both). The fix is get an adjustable FPR (avoid B&M and AEM, get SX/Aeromotive/FuelLab). You will also be heating your fuel up more with the 255 vs the 190. Warm fuel is good, hot fuel is bad.

I would recommend Injector Nation IN600's before RDX injectors. They end up costing less, fit better, and flow a bit more. They're also MATCHED, while all RDX resellers simply pull them out of a box (3% balance or worse vs 1%).

 

Hmmmm maybe I should check my fuel pressure on my GSR with my dw300 and stock fpr...

 

I might be a bit late but there is absolutely no must-have-a-wideband for mpg and lean burn
d15z6 which is a short block version od d16y5 and evolution of d15z1-z3 utilize 1-wire o2 sensor )
of course you have to use wb to tune, but on a daily basis - there is no need

 

I picked up a P06-A52 on Monday. https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3g0x6kl2YFJdExOZGxuOTNSTkE
(BTW it is beautiful inside. Never opened... until Monday.)
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3g0x6kl2YFJdGNsZzNSb2xCNUk

I also purchased a 11F0 VTEC Conversion kit from moates. https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3g0x6kl2YFJOVZkcDM3TmpHeVU It arrived today.

I noticed, when checking the board out today, that the R201 resistor is already present, obviously this just means less soldering for me but anyone know why it is present in the P06 and not in other 11F0 boards?
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3g0x6kl2YFJTGc3NlFfblJpbXc
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3g0x6kl2YFJdGNsZzNSb2xCNUk

I will be trying to complete the VTEC conversion and the Auto to Manual conversion, this coming week.

 

Still no input on the harnesses?

I just can't find a reason why the harness(y5) can't match the engine(y5)?
If the pins are removed from the harness the respective sensor will be absent from the ECU especially if the sensor is "turned off" in Neptune or not even present on the board?
Just unpin the 5 wires from the 5wire O2 sensor plug to use a 4 wire plug and repin the 4 wires used for the 4wire O2 respective to the ECU(color of wire will need to be recorded for the differences).

I have looked at pinouts for the OBD1 ECU so it seems possible.