id do arp rod bolts and block girdle on the b20

 

How to build a "reliable" lsvtec/b20vtec - Honda-Tech

The Old One - Energy Dynamics

and id go with acl bearings over king if you will be reving

 

Fwiw: I've always used king. Used acl twice.

No bearing woes at all. Either brand.

Over revving till valve float didnt hurt em. Delivered using my car (starts and stops), same result.

 

Measure your journals and caps then find out what the factory specs are and get the right bearings, you can never go wrong with factory bearings. IIRC all the aftermarket stuff is a set thickness and factory bearings you can get different thicknesses for better more precise clearance.

But that's just me, if not go with king or clevite

 

Thanks guys. I told him to quote his total price with OEM's since we can get the color codes off the block and crank and order what we need exactly. ARP rod bolts and head studs will be used, maybe even main studs.

 

The golden eagle kit is the best kit out.

 

Adjust your bearing clearances accordingly. The stock specs for non-VTEC egines are tighter than the VTEC engines. I prefer to use run bearing clearances on the loose side. I also used Cleavite bearings in my time bomb. 12K miles ans still tick, tick ticking away. I just did another build over the summer, different engine and car, and used ACL bearings. Cleanliness and setup are the most important part.

ARP rod bolts are a good idea. If you do use them, get a stretch gauge and torque them the proper way (again IMO).

Use the good Golden Eagle sandwich plate and oil line. I also like their head-gaskets as well since they are bored out OEM PR3/P72 head-gaskets.

Dowels can be done with either the conversion dowels, or drilling the head to use the no-VTEC dowel locations.

The "need" for a girdle or main studs is going to depend on the application IMO.

Just my $0.02.

The bottom end is going to have a much higher ceiling than the top end if you guys are using OEM cams and an un-ported head.

 

Thank you, good answers I've been looking for (I forgot you have done this before). I figured a little on the loose side of things would be better, for bearing tolerances.

We'll probably use the dowels from the kit, and if you think the GE kit's the way to go, we'll go that route. The LM one was just the first I found since that was the site I was pricing stuff on.

By application, what do you mean? This won't be autox'd or tracked, just a fun street car and some drag racing passes, but will be abused I'm sure.

We've got some new Crower Stage 2 cams that will be going in, and the head has all the supporting things now to handle the RPM. We'll probably clean up the casting marks ourselve and have a valve job done, but probably no major head work, we've got to keep down time to a minimum. I just think those cams will need some rpm to really shine, but I know we can adjust them with the gears anyway.

 

Sustained high RPM use like in road racing, etc IMO is about the only justifiable reason to use a girdle.

Would it help? Sure, but the average street car and drag car are't likely to see enough of a benefit to outweigh the extra cost.

The bottom end will be more than strong enough to handle what you guys are planing on throwing at it IMO.

GE kit is the way to go.

Are those cams Crower, or Brian Crower? Just curious.

Be sure to post up some results when you guys get it all done.

 

Well I'll soon be stepping into my first B series build. My friend has a B16 that seems to have bad rings on #1, and had been contemplating a rebuild anyway. To cut down on down time, we'll pick up a block to build on the side. He wants to add some displacement, and I'll be assembling the motor and helping source parts. It's gotta be kind of a budget build seeing as he's still in college.

Right now, the plan is to source a B20, drop in these pistons to bump CR, do necessary machine work, use his B16 head since it already has Junk2 valvetrain. He has some Crower stage 2 cams and AEM gears he never installed, so we'll be using them as well. We'll use ARP rod bolts and head studs as well.

We've got to go through the trans and put synchro's in, at least that's what it feels like but I'll check the forks while we're in there. I'm open for opinions on where to get the kit for this as well.

My questions are:
1.) Should we get one of the VTEC conversion kits, like this one from Lightning Motorsports? It's kinda pricey but has the correct studs and oiling kit already in one place. If there's a better option let me know.

you will need one of this.

2.) I suggested going back with OEM bearings, but I see a lot of King bearings but don't know much about them, they any good? Also I assume go to factory clearances on everything from P2W, ring gap and bearing clearance, maybe on the loose side of things?

oem, acl or king will be fine, follow stock b16a clearance and you are all good. ring gap pls follow pistons manufacturer guide.

3.) Assuming the tune will be well done, what kind of RPM ceiling should we cut this thing to? It will be stock rods and cast pistons but with ARP stuff.

stock b20b rod and bolt is good for 10krpm if you tighten them properly but it will not last too many pass before the small and big end run out of shape due to rod flex, they are not as weak as you think. with frequent 10krpm, the sleeve will crack sooner or later. i recommend 9k to be safe.

4.) For HG, I figure a FelPro MLS will work well, but wanted opinions. I do see the whole bottom end kits online like FJ once carried and that would help in piecing all our gaskets, bearings, pistons and rings in one spot, I just don't know how good they are long term.

get stock b20b head gasket P8R. don't waste time with other brand.

If there are any other obstacles in going down this road let me know, this is my first time even looking into building a B. If I can think of any other questions I'll post them, thanks guys!

 

Just Crower, not Brian Crower. Here's the link to the cams he bought. I didn't know about BC when he ordered these (originally for his B16) or I would have suggested a look at them.

 

Your friend will deff love this ride, get her tune right away.

The YCP piston is a good upgrade to up the cr the cam will deff need it. Since the valve train are properly set to handle higher rpm, tune till the power stops. That cam should make power till 8500, my crower stage stop making power at 7500.

-I have use oem on my rods bearings
-Acl on Mains
-Arp rod bolts
-Arp Main studs
-I also run breather Can, the b20 block doen't have a black box. If you need some help on this I can send you the part number for the fitting on the block
-Oem b20 head gasket

The rest, make sure they are assembled clean and run bearing spec on the loose side if you are going Acl or clevite, and or kings. Snm95ls got that covered.

 

It'll be getting tuned immediately, lol I'm handling that and assembly. It will be super clean, there's a reason my current engine has survived as long and through as much abuse as it has! Once we get it street tuned we'll probably try to make it to a dyno, just depends on how his money situation looks but I'll definitely want to get some #'s.

A part number and a picture would be great, I figure he'll need a catch can anywho.

Also, right now all we have is some freshly cleaned H22 injectors. Injector Rehab showed them to flow 296cc at 3 BAR. I'm hoping these will be enough seeing as most of the budget will be taken up in the motor/trans. May have to bump pressure up a bit to around 55psi, but I think they'll be close.

 

my 310cc wasnt good enought, my 510 is plenty now.

 

FWIW, breather fittings that run off the back of the block are way less than an ideal solution to vent crankcase pressure without loosing oil. If you pull those plugs and look at how the drain back galleys are shaped right behind those plugs, you should understand why. I currently run the Endyn breather setup, but I just haven't had time to change the way it is setup yet.

 

Back from the dead! My friend ordered a B20, getting ready to do this pretty quick when it comes in.

I figured we should set all the clearances to the loose side of factory spec, but I'm definitely open for opinion/experience.

Should we use a GSR oil and water pump? And what t-belt as well?

 

Gsr water pump, gsr timing belt. All 96-00 bseries uses the same oil pump now. Gsr arp head studs.

 

ARP head studs
GE vtec kit
and for clearances I thought you set them on the loose side when you do a forced induction set up (turbo,supercharge etc) and tighter side of the spectrum for NA ? Someone correct me if I am wrong.

 

GE makes a good kit, but on my LS/V I'm using the KGParts.com conversion kit. Comes with dowels, head plug, oil feed line, and all fittings. It's inexpensive too. I'm running stock LS rods (exact same as B20) and stock NPR replacement pistons...and every time I drive my car, it sees 8000 at least once. I'm also using ACL Race bearings and she is happier than ever (over 15K miles on this motor since the build). As far as rev limit, that's determined more or less by your valvetrain. If you're running upgraded valvetrain, 8500-9K won't be an issue. Personally, I don't make any power passed 7800, so I just spin it to ~8K usually (I'm running a B20/V tune, so yes, it's rich and only made 142whp/118wtq, but it's 100% safe and runs great). As far as headgasket goes, I'm using a Cometic (can't remember what thickness) and I have a B16 head w/ GSR cams. Unless you plan on boosting it or revving to the sky, stock rod bolts and stock valvetrain will easily go to 8000-8200 all day long. I tracked my LS/V @ VIR for a Hyperdrive a few years ago, and she pretty much stayed above 5K for the full 30 minutes...never once an issue (other than my alternator falling off and the bracket and belt rolling across the track, but that's what happens when you make a D-series alternator work on a B-series motor and don't tighten a bolt up completely LOL).

 

GE makes a good kit, but on my LS/V I'm using the KGParts.com conversion kit. Comes with dowels, head plug, oil feed line, and all fittings. It's inexpensive too. I'm running stock LS rods (exact same as B20) and stock NPR replacement pistons...and every time I drive my car, it sees 8000 at least once. I'm also using ACL Race bearings and she is happier than ever (over 15K miles on this motor since the build). As far as rev limit, that's determined more or less by your valvetrain. If you're running upgraded valvetrain, 8500-9K won't be an issue. Personally, I don't make any power passed 7800, so I just spin it to ~8K usually (I'm running a B20/V tune, so yes, it's rich and only made 142whp/118wtq, but it's 100% safe and runs great). As far as headgasket goes, I'm using a Cometic (can't remember what thickness) and I have a B16 head w/ GSR cams. Unless you plan on boosting it or revving to the sky, stock rod bolts and stock valvetrain will easily go to 8000-8200 all day long. I tracked my LS/V @ VIR for a Hyperdrive a few years ago, and she pretty much stayed above 5K for the full 30 minutes...never once an issue (other than my alternator falling off and the bracket and belt rolling across the track, but that's what happens when you make a D-series alternator work on a B-series motor and don't tighten a bolt up completely LOL).

O Man! how rich? you can easily make more power.

 

Yeah this ones using Crower cams, Skank2 springs/retainers and stock rods with ARP bolts.

 

I run the bearing clearances on the loose side myself.

IMO, run them in the middle to loose side of the VTEC specs. The non VTEC specs are a lot tighter.

PiKapp, those power numbers are pretty sickly for a B20V. Those power numbers are either on a hell of a heartbreaker dyno, and/or there is somehting wrong with your setup.

Hell, mine is considered weak for what it is, but it met my goals first pull on the dyno with one of my street tunes. 199 WHP, and 143 WTQ on a Dynojet 224x with STD correction (if my memory serves me correctly).

I don't care for Cometic gaskets, and prefer the OEM gaskets that are bored oversize by Golden Eagle.

ARP studs are pretty much the standard, but I think I prefer GEs design.

 

I'd like to see 200whp from it. I figured use the VTEC clearances, looser is faster!

 

I do hope this goes well for yours and my sake as well....

h34r:

I am just glad you decided to go B20/v

 

Lolwut? If I didn't have to sleeve a GSR for 84mm I'd have suggested that route. I cannot wait to get it going though, gotta turn something fast outta the House of Honda, mine's always gonna be slow

 

subscribed.. will make comments later when i'm home.

 

well fack i thought the mad tyte second gen SiR motor was fun. i might just have to pick up a ls short block or crv short block....

 

This makes me want to go B20/Vtec now