[jvtec8k]

Head is looking good! What's up with that crazy carbon build on the pistons

 

[kingyeddi]

Coulda picked up a complete H22 for $120 from the junk yard this last weekend. If I wanted DOHC and VTEC, I just might have. But NEIN!!!

SOHC is just so f'n sexy...

Something about SOHC NO-TEC makes my balls wet. Looking good dude, that thing is gonna be fun!

The head and deck design looks pretty similar to an A6

Sohc <3!! Fuck two cams. Looking good ole buddy

Cant wait to see the numbers:bigok:

 

[HiProfile]

Ah man you are making a huge amount of assumptions and if there is one thing I know is the best advice ever, its to think outside the box!

One thing to mention is the zeal comp calculator is not accurate for this engine.

Re: exhaust... i was referring to actually changing the angle at which the head will rest on the block, changing the valve angles, etc.


Re: Pistons kissing the head at idle. No they wont, unless they do it on a stock engine? Which they dont. The pistons dont go inside of the CC, they cant fit. So a stock F22 with a .027" head gasket would essentially have exactly the same absolute piston to head clearance as if I milled the head completely flat.

:bigok:

Also, not sure what .018" head gasket you are talking about?

I got the head angle thing, I thought you were thinking of doing it just for exhaust manifold space.

So .018" at the gasket, and how ever much I mill off... lets say .060"

My comment on pistons hitting the head was regarding the quote above. Regardless of zeal, F22 pistons do stick out of the block by 0.005". If your 5-now-3-layer HG is thinned to what you suggest, 0.018 - 0.005 = 0.013" of clearance between the head & pistsons. The quench pads will be flat if you decked the head 0.060". You should have at least 0.030" to account for rod stretch at 7500rpm IMO, and any less would lead to disaster. If your HG is 0.026", you're still in the red zone.

BTW I saw your post on cb7tuner, and I'm quite sure the 0.050" composite gasket you have was designed that thick to account for a milled head. Most heads that old are likely presumed to need milling. I still think zeal is correct. OEM F22 HG's are 0.026" thick in an 8.8:1 motor, and H23 heads share the same chamber size as the F22.

 

[TheToaster]

Run a thicker head gasket so you have ~0.020 P2H

The Open CC is how deep to the pads?

I'd mill the head and get quench and compression at the same time without compromising P2H.

The Shitty part about your P2H right now is that the head doesnt really quench, but it's not like you can protrude the pistons into it.



Why 10:1? Especially in y(our) climate? Just run premium, its like a dollar more a tank?

If 12.5-13 is doable on premium, I think 11 is fine. Many stock engines are even higher in the 13s.

And As far as I am concerned, these were the predecessor to the F20 which evolved into the K.

You can manage it, given your last projects.

 

[the hoove]

Stock comp is 8.8:1 on this engine, mine will be about 10:1. Just that alone would net about 20whp @ 7000rpm, or more. Plus the cam, head work, header, exhaust, intake swap, oh yeah itll be pretty potent.

Ya finally took mine to 6 grand last night and it fell on its face after 5k. My intake Mani is garbage. Too small for high rpms. And the cam is weak as well. I know that guy over on cb7tuner was pulling 187 at the wheels on stock comp and a bisi header with a bunch of head mods a s2 Mani and cam with tune. So you should hit that easy with the k mani and head work along with you compression increase.

 

[HiProfile]

It's most likely the cam if you have a stocker in it, the stock cam is really pitiful. The F22A IM isn't the worst - the F22B IM is the worst, which is on my car. It still does the same thing yours does - peaks at 5k then falls down bt 6k.

Another thing that hurts is the stock timing map. Most F22/F23 motors are helped a LOT by adding a crapload of ignition timing after 4k. 8.8:1 compression lends itself to advanced timing. My old F22B2 makes a lot for what it is, mostly because I kept adding timing when I was tuning it.

 

[FarmerD]

Head is looking good! What's up with that crazy carbon build on the pistons

No idea about that!! lol. Who knows.

Sohc Fuck two cams. Looking good ole buddy

Cant wait to see the numbers:bigok:

Damn rights.

Run a thicker head gasket so you have ~0.020 P2H

The Open CC is how deep to the pads?

I'd mill the head and get quench and compression at the same time without compromising P2H.

The Shitty part about your P2H right now is that the head doesnt really quench, but it's not like you can protrude the pistons into it.



Why 10:1? Especially in y(our) climate? Just run premium, its like a dollar more a tank?

If 12.5-13 is doable on premium, I think 11 is fine. Many stock engines are even higher in the 13s.

And As far as I am concerned, these were the predecessor to the F20 which evolved into the K.

You can manage it, given your last projects.

No more than 10:1 CR, been higher, its a waste of time for a street car, in my opinion. I dont want to put 94oct in this car, if I wanted to do that, I could make way more HP with boost.

There is zero P2H issues with this combo. IDK what the confusion is?

I got the head angle thing, I thought you were thinking of doing it just for exhaust manifold space.



My comment on pistons hitting the head was regarding the quote above. Regardless of zeal, F22 pistons do stick out of the block by 0.005". If your 5-now-3-layer HG is thinned to what you suggest, 0.018 - 0.005 = 0.013" of clearance between the head & pistsons. The quench pads will be flat if you decked the head 0.060". You should have at least 0.030" to account for rod stretch at 7500rpm IMO, and any less would lead to disaster. If your HG is 0.026", you're still in the red zone.

BTW I saw your post on cb7tuner, and I'm quite sure the 0.050" composite gasket you have was designed that thick to account for a milled head. Most heads that old are likely presumed to need milling. I still think zeal is correct. OEM F22 HG's are 0.026" thick in an 8.8:1 motor, and H23 heads share the same chamber size as the F22.

My pistons dont stick out of the block. Maybe your block was milled? IDK.

.027" should be fine for P2H, been done many times before! Every Y8 head swap in existence almost...

I honestly dont think that the F22A6 came with a .027" head gasket from the factory but I need to take apart more to confirm that for sure. They might be 3 layers, but I dont think they are .027", hard to say just an assumption on my behalf.

The Zeal comp calculator just doesnt add up if you build a stock engine. The piston comp heights seem off, idk, maybe I am wrong.

I dont put much faith into the calculator for this engine, and from what I see in front of me, it tells me that the calculator is wrong. I believe more of what I see, than what I hear. A very smart man taught me that!!

Aftermarket companys wont make a thicker HG because people "might" have milled their heads. To me that notion is silly.


Lets just say I am glad this is my build thread, because you guys are REALLY over complicating things.

Mill head, up compression, add cam, port head, exhaust, intake, header, power. Its pretty easy!










Started porting the head. Didnt get far. But got a few pics.

 

[the hoove]

Nice bro! Keep it coming!

 

[Ej1Zcz6]

Dam.. I'm basically doing the same set up.. right now I have the f22b web cam and ported intake etc.... in my ef I will forwarn you now get mounts and axles that match or prepare for da Integra accord mix also alternator relocate kit is a must or cut the head light frame.

MadSci3ntistCr3ations

 

[HiProfile]

I'm not saying to trust numbers from the internet, I'm saying to use them as a guide & take measurements before committing to decking the head. If you have the motor apart, I'd greatly appreciate it if you took a straight edge across the deck & measured the P2D height with feeler gauges, same for the gap between the lowest spot of the CC edges to the cylinder head deck.

If the pistons are in the hole between 0.004 to 0.024", measure the actual stroke. H22 crank/rods with an F22 block/pistons leads to the pistons being in the hole 0.024" (undecked) and ~8.1:1 CR, and 0.020" off would lead to 8.4:1 CR. That would fit together with your pistons being below deck and the extra carbon on the pistons, since it would be running too rich, not enough timing, and too cold of a plug if they had everything else stock.

 

[FarmerD]

Nice bro! Keep it coming!

Thank you sir, you know it will happen. muahaha

Dam.. I'm basically doing the same set up.. right now I have the f22b web cam and ported intake etc.... in my ef I will forwarn you now get mounts and axles that match or prepare for da Integra accord mix also alternator relocate kit is a must or cut the head light frame.

B series transmission with B series mounts = B series axles. Makes it very easy!

I'm not saying to trust numbers from the internet, I'm saying to use them as a guide & take measurements before committing to decking the head. If you have the motor apart, I'd greatly appreciate it if you took a straight edge across the deck & measured the P2D height with feeler gauges, same for the gap between the lowest spot of the CC edges to the cylinder head deck.

If the pistons are in the hole between 0.004 to 0.024", measure the actual stroke. H22 crank/rods with an F22 block/pistons leads to the pistons being in the hole 0.024" (undecked) and ~8.1:1 CR, and 0.020" off would lead to 8.4:1 CR. That would fit together with your pistons being below deck and the extra carbon on the pistons, since it would be running too rich, not enough timing, and too cold of a plug if they had everything else stock.

I dont have a machinists straight edge. They appear to be about flush, maybe a C hair in the hole. I wouldnt for a second imagine them being .024" deep. Maybe .002 in the hole. (scraped the sleeve with the edge of a long razor blade, some black remains on the piston, sleeve is clean. therefore, small gap, or the piston is just rocking that little bit and its flush).

Sorry I cant be more helpful... The engine is stock. Its not a hybrid H22 build or something. Never been rebuilt. Head looks like it might have been off once before. Still has OEM machining marks from the factory. Not 100% sure if the HG is the OEM stocker or not.






On to more pics of port work. F'uuu its hard to get good pics. It looks so much better in person. Meh.

Still need to do the valve bowls and the valve area. But that is the place that gets the least "changes". Mostly just a clean up to steam line everything. (for example the valve seats to port transition could use a little work, but here on this F22 head, its actually pretty damn decent! Especially when compared to the Y8 heads. So bad)

Ok lets start with the exhaust side. I went a bit further after this, opened up the port a little more. But I didnt finish them, so here is a pic of them with the basic shape I want, just going to be a little big bigger.

A good pic of one of the intake ports. I started doing the one side, then decided it would be a good pic to take for everyone to see.

Basically this is what it looks like after some roughing in.

A pic of a mostly done port. It still needs the "finishing" done, the correct grit flapper wheels and it'll look like PPorting work! Heheh.

 

[turboprelude95]

Head is looking great, care to port a second one!

 

[FarmerD]

If I had a garage to work from, it wouldnt be a bad idea.

I bet you PPorting could port it better than me, all day, and be pretty damn inexpensive too.

 

[FarmerD]

Progress on the head delayed due to helping people left right and center the last few weekends. No worries, thats what friends are for!

A friends yota we just did a suspension lift on yesterday. total PITA. lol.

 

[HUFFING x GAS]

A good pic of one of the intake ports. I started doing the one side, then decided it would be a good pic to take for everyone to see.

Basically this is what it looks like after some roughing in.

You removed material from the valve guide as well? This wont cause any issues or premature wear?

 

[FarmerD]

You removed material from the valve guide as well? This wont cause any issues or premature wear?

The engine has 300,000km on it already.

I dont expect the engine to be in the car for more than 50,000km. In fact I dont think I've ever left an engine in my car for that long before I build something new and exciting!!


But to answer your question with a yes or no. Yes, it may lead to increased wear from less support. Just like B series guides, which are way too short.

So lets say I have issues. No worries, new guides that are tapered by hand on the drill press!

 

[jvtec8k]

You've cut more on that head more than i did to mine. Looks better than my port work that's for sure.

 

[FarmerD]

Its not even done yet either! The exhaust is going bigger. The intake roof will be raised a bit more. The divider will be thinned more at the top. The guide ramps need more shaping.

Shit I totally forgot about the bowls still, too. Jees.. At least 3-4 hours left at the minimum.

I could just keep porting it for years but I guess we gotta call it at some point.

 

[jvtec8k]

Its not even done yet either! The exhaust is going bigger. The intake roof will be raised a bit more. The divider will be thinned more at the top. The guide ramps need more shaping.

Shit I totally forgot about the bowls still, too. Jees.. At least 3-4 hours left at the minimum.

I could just keep porting it for years but I guess we gotta call it at some point.

I actually like porting it's fun to learn. I think I will port my spare head just for the hell of it. Post the pictures when you're done with it

 

[HUFFING x GAS]

Makes me want to find a Z6 head to try my own hand at head porting.