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Deck height and Quench pads in DOHC D series

4.7K views 12 replies 5 participants last post by  nzcivicracer  
#1 · (Edited)
I am looking to heavily modify a D16A8 (=DOHC ZC)

I intend to raise the deck to get longer rods in with a D17 crank

I have done some homework on longer belts. Here are my notes after talking with Gates Tech Support.

Info I have to date is that a Gates:-
T142R is 124 teeth, 24mm wide HSN construction for DOHC D series & DOHC ZC
T132 is 126 teeth, 24mm wide Std construction
T247R is 126 teeth, 26mm wide HSN construction for B18C2
T895 is 126 teeth, 24mm wide HSN construction for H22A4, H22B and F22Z

After looking at my head, I measured the inlet side quench pads and they are down about 2mm. There is no exhaust side quench pad.

Also the round gasket face of the chamber is 74mm bore, so it overhangs the bore to give a 0.5mm quench all the way around.

Also the pistons are about 1mm down the bore, so after also including the gasket, there is a lot of clearance between the piston and the smallish quench areas.

Do you guys do anything to correct that, like 1mm longer rods or 1mm higher compression height pistons and about 2mm of the head or do you weld in extra quench pad on both sides.

I am considering making a deck plate from aluminium plate and using it to convert conventional wet sleeves to the equivalent of modular by using the deck plate which is accurately located by dowles to tie the sleeve to the block at the deck and ruining a D17 crank at 94.4mm stroke with longer than stock rods and with 28mm compression height pistons.

The belt should allow an extra 8mm of deck height and the 2mm milled off the head should allow another 2mm on the deck plate to keep the crank centre to cam centres at the std distance.

That gives 10mm higher deck and a good quench pad on the inlet side at least without welding.

So with deck up from 212 to 222mm and 28mm and 94.4 stroke I need 146.8mm long rods. That gives 1.56:1 rod to stroke which while short and turbo friendly is not to short where the rod gets laid over to much and has really high side loads on the block and piston.

I wonder what pin heights SRP or Wiseco offer in 78mm bore in pistons to suit boost.

Is 2mm (0.080") off the head OK. Has anyone done it.

Are the valve notches for DOHC different to SOHC D series . ie will flat top or even dish op pistons for SOHC D series work. At 0.080" off the head and about 0.036" piston to head, in an 1800 cc engine compression should not be a problem. I will do the sums accurately though.

Does anyone weld up the squish pads on the exhaust side to equal those on SOHC engines
 
#3 ·
I need to find a sleeve that I can machine to fit.

Air cooled individual cylinders or small diesel wet sleeves or if all else fails, some high carbon, rotationally cast iron pipe.
 
#4 ·
DOHC ports are said to be to big by those who have raced them. 200 extra ccs should fix that.
 
#5 ·
Another problem with the DOHC head is the chamber volume and poor quench. I need to fix the quench. The volume should be easy as I only want 8:1 compression.
 
#7 ·
The third claimed problem is the valvetrain.

It is claimed to be weak. I need to study it, but it looks a lot like the B series valve train which has a good reputation. I have a B series head to compare in detail and use for parts if they can be adapted.

I suspect if I can keep the valves from floating it will be OK.

Strength of parts like rocker arms or whatever you call them and the pivot ball may be an issue.

As I have a spare set of B series valves I also need to see how they fit and if the seats can be cut to suit them if the stems are the same size (although that can be fairly easily fixed) and if the length impacts much on the geometry with stock cams.

Room for good valve springs may be an issue
 
#8 ·
If Eagle or FJT? will make a custon length and width, I will use them

If not a local company called Argo Marine makes very nice H beams to specification. They really do approach Carrillo quality. Somewhat more costly than Scat or Eagle, but still a lot less than Carrillo.

If I can get a rod that is close I will see what it costs to get different pin heights in the pistons. One or the other will have to be custom I expect.
 
#11 ·
Custom pistons with larger B series pin.

The use off the shelf Eagles thinned down at the crankshaft end, .037"

Honda/Acura Integra B18A/B DOHC non-VTEC (also CRV B20B/Z) 3/8" ARP 2000 Bolts-1.771 crank pin/.826 piston pin/.935 b.e. width
C-C LENGTH GRAM WEIGHT PART NUMBER
5.394 Stock 510 CRS5394A3D
5.531 +.137 520 CRS5531A3D
5.862 +.468 N/A CRS5862A3D
5.967 +.573 555 CRS5967A3D
6.243 +.849 N/A CRS6243A3D
 
#9 ·
Come on, where are all the guys who hot rodded DOHC D heads. I need the voice of experience to back up or oppose the observations and theory.

Some one must have been there, done that.
 
#13 ·
There is a guy on nzhondas that has done a lot of extensive mods to DOHC ZC's, I will try get him in touch with you. His last ZC was making just under 200whp.
He was selling one of his race heads a while ago, the thread has dissapeared, but the specs were:

It is a jdm HM5 head that has been ported to acheive the magic 70% intake vs exhaust flow and finished
with 400 grit swirl to help create a cork screw type swirling of the charge. Specs are:

-forged stainless valves 1mm oversize intake stock size exhaust with back cut stems
- 3 angle valve job
- cryogeniclly treated rockers
- bronze valve guides
- 41kg seat pressure valve springs ( 8500rpm easy )
- JUN ti retainers and keepers
- over sized oil control jet
- redesigned combustion chamber
- milled 30 thou
- modified valve angle
- all new high tensile cam cap bolts
- new stem seals
 
#10 ·
The block is straight forward machine work. No difference if it's a Honda or Goggomobile, but the head, I need a few clues.
 
#12 ·
Allo. Interesting. I have some input, but, not based on my own personal experience, just research I've done over the now 11+ hears I've owned a DOHC D.

I was planning on taking off ~.120" off my DOHC D head. (Measured via Starrett depth micrometer, but not on a truly flat surface.) That just clears the lowest seat on my spare head that I have. More can be taken, but that should be enough for me to lower the chamber volume enough to use with my Rollerwave -6.26cc pistons to have over 10.5:1 SCR on my boost build. JLI has taken off over 2mm on a DOHC before without issues, as long as the machine work is good.

The issues I have seen with these valve trains are with stock springs above stock rev limits (7800RPM). I am setting a general limit with aftermarket springs and retainers to 8500RPM. Below this, there seems to be very few actual issues with longevity or failures. Rushi (Finland) or Sebastian (Germany) would be good people to pursue asking about this.

Nobody on this forum invests in custom rods. Your largest hindrence is going to be BE widths, as there are a much larger variety of rods available for the VTEC Bs than anything with the wider BE such as the D and the LS. You are going into territory that only one other person I know of has ventured into with the D: Larry Widmer. He evidently raised the deck on a D16A6, ran longer rods, and had ~11:1 SCR with a massively modified JRSC setup. I don't know who did his sleeves and deckplate.

The valve notches are HUGELY different between SOHC non-VTEC and the DOHC D.

Wiseco made the 78mm Rollerwave Pistons for Endyn, so, I would contact them pistons since they have a history with them. I would dearly love to see if you could get pistons made with a nice, modern (small, low-tension) ring package, very raised pin, strutted, and lightweight setup!