Here is a starting point from some random online guide on how to cheaply or easily increase horsepower without having to do some crazy modifications that new to the sceene people can play with. Though they were not very helpfull at explaining what a final result might be or what or where to find the parts at.

If you guys know a site that allows me to learn the math to start doing the numbers on theoretical potentials, I'd appreciate it.

But basic starter mod list:

* Cold Air Intake
--- bypass valve
* Cat-back Exauhst system (titatnium offers lowest weight alternative)
* Adjustable Feul Pressure Regulator/High Volume Fuel Pump
--- Fuel Controll Computer system
* High Performance Ignition System
* High Performance Drive Puley System

All these (according to the guides estimates) should give roughly 30-45 horse power which is 60-70% of our desired power goal. Though which parts will fit our 7th gen?

 

But basic starter mod list:

* Cold Air Intake
--- bypass valve
will work well.

* Cat-back Exauhst system (titatnium offers lowest weight alternative)
even better when complimented by a header.

* Adjustable Feul Pressure Regulator/High Volume Fuel Pump
--- Fuel Controll Computer system
no need, waste of your money at this point in time

* High Performance Ignition System
The ignition can handle way more that your current hp goals, no need.

* High Performance Drive Puley System
wouldnt suggest it quite yet.

My suggestions are starting with the above and just working strictly on letting the motor breathe more easily. Then tune with a proper computer (chipped ecu or standalone). You will be more than happy with the output of the motor after that. Anything past basic boltons, well you can do your research and learn a bit.

 

Did some looking around at what is available for the DX and this might give some starter ideas as to where to go.

Air intake options avaialbel from Autoanything
===================

http://www.performancecenter.com/pr...oduct.page/Air+Intake/Air+Intake+Kits/0/0/AEM/AEM24-6102C/HONDA/2004/Civic/1.7L


AEM - Air Intake Kits - Version 2 Air Induction System

Fits the DX model.
16 HP/20 lb ft Torque
Retail Price: $368.99
Your Low Price: $265.99
Cleaning kid: $7.99
Total: $277.98 or $380.98
Price per HP: $18.67

No standard cold air intakes available from anyone I've seen. This version 2 is it.
No option or mention of a bypass valve. Is one needed with this system?

Alternative:
AEM Short Ram Induction System
5 HP/7 lb ft Torque
Retail Price: $209.99
Your Low Price: $150.99
Cleaning Kit: 7.99
Total: 157.99 or 216.99
Price per HP: $31.60

Cheaper overall, but much more expensive horsepower.

====================

Exauhst

http://www.racinglab.com/greddy-dt-10154021-1.html

Greddy DT (Dynamic Tune) Axle-Back Exhaust System (Part#10154021)
Retail Price: US$469.95
Sale Price: US$385.95

Closest thing I've found so far, no mention of potential horse power increase.
It's also Axle Back and not Cat-back, does that really make that much of a difference?


Found on another site with claims that it will fit my DX

http://www.sportcompactonly.com/Honda/Civic/Catback-Exhaust/Exhaust/Performance/part_c-27_pl-631_p-33927_vt-509_vy-2004.htm?s_kwcid=civic%20cat%20back%20exhaust|458981651&gclid=CIyRqoq6xY0CFQXpgAod8wKIHA

GReddy SP2 Catback Exhaust Systems
MSRP: $679.00
Your Price: $529.97

Though in the description they appeared to be marketing to the turbo boosted market with this piece.

****

To move away from greedy an alternative was found:

http://www.sportcompactonly.com/Honda/Civic/Catback-Exhaust/Exhaust/Performance/part_c-27_pl-653_p-26379_vt-509_vy-2004.htm?s_kwcid=civic%20cat%20back%20exhaust|458981651&gclid=CIyRqoq6xY0CFQXpgAod8wKIHA

Tanabe Super Medallion Hyper Spec Cat-back Ex
MSRP: $630.00
Your Price: $499.99

Requires additional extension pipe:

http://www.sportcompactonly.com/Honda/Civic/Catback-Exhaust/Exhaust/Performance/part_c-27_pl-653_p-91892_vt-509_vy-2004.htm?s_kwcid=civic%20cat%20back%20exhaust|458981651&gclid=CIyRqoq6xY0CFQXpgAod8wKIHA

MSRP: $150.00
Your Price: $145.97

Puts this price over the full catback system offered by greedy, and we have to pay shipping twice.

***

From HKS

HKS Hi-Power Exhaust Systems
Part Number: 3203-EX025


http://www.sportcompactonly.com/Honda/Civic/Catback-Exhaust/Exhaust/Performance/part_c-27_pl-623_p-57164_vt-509_vy-2004.htm?s_kwcid=civic%20cat%20back%20exhaust|458981651&gclid=CIyRqoq6xY0CFQXpgAod8wKIHA

MSRP: $385.00
Your Price: $335.99


Again there is an emphasis on turbo application in the item description. So I take it these would not be good for NA tunes?

Should I go for the Axle back system or what would be best?

====================

In the last 4 hours of bouncing all over the web, I've found only 1 header so far that says it can be fitted to a DX model:

http://www.sportcompactonly.com/Headers/Exhaust/Performance/performance-parts_c-59.htm

Hedman Header
MSRP: $530.44
Your Price: $486.23

Tube Size 1.5 in

But there is very limited information about what the system offers. Seems shady.

===================

Any advice or sugestions about what to pick or where to look would be appreciated. How do I figure out what tubing sizes would garnish decent results without goofing up my engine pressure? Thats the question, because I read somewhere that if you put too much exauhst on your system the engine cant create enough, or will have too much back pressure and that would end up being worse for longlevity or performance.

I also read somewhere that by just swapping out your cables and spark plugs you can get an extra 3-5 horse power out of your system. What kind of stuff would you need for that?

Ill dig through more tongiht, got work.

 

I believe I may have found my boost and chip solutions at an affordable price. It's an electric supercharger with claims of a 20 HP boost, and they are partners with another chiping company to mod your performance chip.

With the supposed intake and exauhst system (25 hp right) + the super charger and chip (+20, and whatever the chip gives you) would put us at +45 HP, placing the numbers from 115 to 160, just 10 HP of my minimum target goal.

Do you guys know anything about this? Are my numbers way off? Here are the sites:

http://www.electricchargers.com/
and
http://www.stchiptuning.com/

I shot them e-mails, but havent heard anything back yet. But this might be a good investment for the beginning tuner.

 

OK. I completely respect what you're trying to do here, and I don't want to discourage you from undertaking this project. Its admirable that you're looking for a way to increase the performance of your D17 non-VTEC lump. But you're starting off on the wrong foot on a couple items here.

Intake/Header/Exhaust: Don't believe the hype on the additional horsepower. You're going to need to change some things around to get any benefit here. Currently your cat is attached to the manifold and this severely limits any kind header application available to you if you want to stay NA.

My advice is go custom on the exhaust. Get a standard 4-2-1 race header for an EX, get a Magnaflow or Random Technology high-flow cat, then go to Summit's website, buy a 3ft length of 2.25 Stainless steel exhaust pipe and a 3-bolt 2.25 exhaust flange, and then get any reputable 2.25" catback exhaust made to fit a 2004 Civic EX. Take all these parts to any muffler shop, had them $100 and ask them to make it fit. By doing this, you get the benefit of having the 4-2-1 long tube header (DC makes one), a high-flow cat that lets you remain emissions compliant and does not impede flow. Any header/exhaust combo for your DX will be limited to a shorty header with zero HP gains because of the way the cat hangs off that manifold.

Air Intake: You're looking at really 1-2 HP redistributed along the power curve, and a loss of low-end torque. Yes the car will breath much better at higher RPMs, but don't expect mad horsepower gains from this. Brand and tube design really doesn't effect our engines that much, just make sure it has a good quality filter. I've heard AEM's new dry-flows are nice.

Electronics - Don't buy the "super charger" or that crappy chip. That "performance chip" is just a resistor that fools the ECU into thinking the air intake charge is colder than it actually is so it dumps a little more fuel into the mix. There won't be any "20 hp gain" like the advertise. Don't get me started on the "super charger"

You will need a comprehensive engine management system to take advantage of any extensive mods you do to this car. Our ECU is a fickle bitch at best and either needs to be replaced with Hondata's K-pro or have a piggyback system to control fuel and timing - AEM's new F/IC has had some very good reviews. Check www.dezod.com. Paul is very helpful and stocks quality kit.

My advice is to swap your D17A1 non-VTEC head for the D17A2 VTEC flavor. You really don't know what you're missing by not having VTEC. Tons of info out there on the other Civic forums (civicforums, emhonda, etc..)

Performance Pulley System - Don't mess with crank or alternator pulley. In fact there's probably nothing to be gained from changing out the pulleys except for headaches and catastrophic engine failure. Tons of threads on these so I won't go into it.

Ditto on the ignition, especially since we have the distributor-less ignition system. You can replace the coilpacks with "high performance" ones (Plasma coils is one vendor), but I don't know if there are any dyno proven results on this. Several folks are making high 300s on boost setups with the stock coil packs.

I would replace that stock 22-pound flywheel with a lighter weight one. I'm running the Exedy lightened FW, its 11 pounds. The less rotating mass, you have, the more power the engine is able to transfer to the wheels. Don't go too light is my opinion, although some folks swear by the 7 pound Fidanza flywheels.

So in a nutshell, my advice is this to start with:

- Custom EX-based exhaust/header/cat combo
- Any CAI with a decent filter
- a reputable EMS (K-pro, AEM F/IC, AEM EMS, etc.)
- swap out the stock clutch and flywheel
- D17A2 head swap

I would also lose the stock rims and tires and go with something a lot lighter as well.

Once all this is done, then its time to start looking at upgrading the cam and valve train, and raising the compression by changing out the pistons and upgrading to stronger rods. This will require more fuel and tuning, tuning, tuning. I'd recommend converting to a return fuel system so you can add an adjustable FPR to accommodate your engine's new fuel requirements. Currently we have a returnless fuel system, ergo one fuel line from the pump to the fuel rail.

None of this will be cheap or easy, but its all possible. Again this is simply my advice and I am by no means an expert on this or any other engine, but I do know a little bit. Hope that helps.

 

Honestly, it seems to me that you are looking for a "slap-on parts" fix, just planning them all at once. I think you will be extremely disappointed with the results.

In general, most people build an engine around the cam. The you select a compression ratio, displacement, intake and exhaust system that will complement that cam best.

If you insist on D17A1 (non-vtec) you are really limiting yourself to completely custom work, as no off-the-shelf aftermarket cams really exist. Crower has a nice setup for the A2, which, with some nice port work, high compression, and quality header may get you to what you are looking for.

 

ok first off "chips" are a no no. unless ur planning on some kind of ems or afc, these chips usually do nothing for performance. and a vortex style intake/filter usually does nothing as well.
i plan on doing a complete na build once my warranty is up and i see where ur going here. the matter of the fact is i,h,e is not going to get u 25hp, possibly 10 at the most.
id recommend aem v2 intake, kamikaze header with custom 2.25" straight piping and a universal muffler or rsr with custom extension pipe if u want to get the best out of that combo. the only way to increase that would be a2 head swap with stage 3 cams, pnp job, milling the head and having someone make custom pistons to raise compression along with crower na rods. some rsx injectors, custom fuel rail and aem ems or kpro and maybe u can hit 180-200hp (my goal from that build)

a lot of work that not many ppl have actually attempted (that i know of)

 

I just learned in 2 minutes just exactly how much I don't know, and I just had the chance to glimpse at the actual planning thought processes you guys go through... Okay, this is helping a lot. Anyone know any good starter books on how the heck I teach myself how to do some of the stuff you guys are talking about?

Now when you say to a Cam Swap, wouldn't I have to completely change out the engine? As the A2 is DOHC and min is SOHC, which would require the cam and the top of the engine block being switched? ~~~~

And one more thing, got a site list to where I can find some of those parts and pieces you threw out there?

* Updated the top of the thread with suggestions from speedfoos

 

OK folks, doing good here, don't flame this guy.

Tons of stuff out there as far as general Honda building resources. My advice is head to Borders and browse through their books. Avoid anything that uses the word "trick" over and over. I boiught HPBooks' Honda/Acura Engine Performance (by Mike Kojima) a while back. It has some good info, nothing about the D17, and uses the word "trick" ceaselessly. That being said, its not an awful book for general purpose Honda engine knowledge.

Not a cam swap, a cylinder head swap. The D17A2 Honda engine is exactly the same as your D17A1, but has a VTEC head. The blocks are interchangeable. It is still a SOHC engine. The camshaft goes inside the head.

Go to summitracing.com for things like exhaust flanges, tubing, universal catalytic converters and so on. As far as all the other stuff goes......there a ton of sites out there. Like I said, if you haven't check out dezod.com, he's one of the vendors out there really doing some good for the 7th gen. As far as pistons and rods go, yeah there are no options for high compression pistons made for the D17. But there are other avenues to take here. The D16Y8 rotating assembly (crankshaft, rods, pistons) will fit in our engine with minimal fuss. This opens up a lot of other options when it comes to rod and piston choice. But that is a whole other can of worms that you're probably not ready for yet at this stage in your D17 knowledge.

 

And you messed up the bits on the flywheel.

Stock flywheel - 22 pounds
Exedy Street Lite - 11 pounds
Fidanza billet aluminum - 7 pounds

There are other options out there for that as well.

And no one makes a bolt-on supercharger kit (a real one) for the D17.

 

Here's my set up:
D17a1 block with D17a2 head Head was $300
Crower stage 2 cam with different springs ~$400
DC sports 4-2-1 ceramic header $320
DC sports single canister exhaust system $450
(NO CAT)
Apexi vafc $100 on e-gay
AEM V2 ~$300
K&N filter from a 99 cobra $66
DC short throw $80

This set-up is pretty mild but it sure as hell woke the car up and is very reliable for daily driving. I don't have any numbers as far as ponies or torque but it's a whole different car. If you need a DIY on the head swap go to civicforums and dig around, it's very detailed and was a nice help

 

The head swap seems to be a general consensus with you guys. Allright, that will be my first purchase once I get to the point I can start saving for this project.

Why didn't you do a CAT?

*Refixed top post area* - Mucho Appreciato Speedfos

 

because I don't get tested for emissions here and I really don't see the point in spending the xtra cash on a converter when it runs better without

 

Forgot to mention, probably the most sizable improvement would come off improving gearing. The D17A2 transmission probably has much better ratios for acceleration.

 

only if you plan on keeping it N/A. The a1 trans has longer gear ratios and is good for boost

 

There is some guy named djmota who is making over 155 whp and 137wtq now, im gonna check to see what his mods are.

 

HEY SPEEDFOOS , tell this guy what my recommendation is would ya , its not like you dont know , hahaha.

 

LOL - 7th gen k-swaps are for ****! :haha: Don't take the easy way out - boost it!

Shireen, you will have to completely fab a supercharger to fit. Neither JRSC or Weiland make a kit to fit a D17. I'm sure it could be done with a ton of fabrication, but fuck, good luck man if that's what you have your heart set on. I hate to say it, but the only way (shudders) to put an SC on a 7th gen (you can't make me!) is to k-swap it (god damn it) and then put the SC on. I'm blaming you for this BlackD!

 

I was planning on going Supercharger instead of turbo for the wideband application. I want the low end for Autocross and my deliveries. =)

Most of you guys go turbo around here. Is it cheaper or something?

 

*pushes the evil Speedfoos button*

What about the little ellectric Supercharger I posted earlier. They claim 30HP and gave me a return e-mail saying it could easily be made to fit my car. And you said you had an issue with it.

Just to double check with the rest of the guys, were talking about these parts for the Header switch right?

http://www.hondapartswarehouse.com/...rts_detail.asp?cat1=CIVIC&cat2=2004&cat3=2DR EX &cat4=KA5MT&cat5=A&Cat6=E 09

And

http://www.hondapartswarehouse.com/...rts_detail.asp?cat1=CIVIC&cat2=2004&cat3=2DR EX &cat4=KA5MT&cat5=A&Cat6=E 1001

Right?

 

Cylinder head swap, not header switch. The header is what a performance version of an exhaust manifold is called. The first link you have is just the valve cover, and your existing one fits both the D17A1 and D17A2. Yes the second picture is the cylinder head which is what you swap out. You should be able to pick up a used one (with the VTEC solenoid, very important) and all the other sensors attached for $200-250.

Stop with the electric supercharger already!. Even it does force a more air down the intake, then you are going to need to supply more fuel to compensate for this. And that's going to require an engine management system because our ECU just doesn't play. If your heart is set on it, then go for it, we all advise against it, but at least get the new AEM F/IC (close to $500 with the PnP wiring harness) to be able to accurately tune the car to compensate for the additional fuel requirements. 30 hp is not realistic in my opinion.

 

Ebay Electric fans cannot move enough CFM inorder to keep up with the needs of the motor.

 

If have to agree with Candycane04. D17A2 transmission for normally aspirated. D17A1 transmission for boost. You'll make better use of the boost power band with the longer gearings.

Anyways, the D17 isn't a motor you particularly want to revv up with its 94.4mm stroke.

Shireen, if you plan on swapping transmissions one day, you will have to change the axles aswell. Somebody tried to go from A2 to A1 transmission and had issues with the axles fitting. I'll search the link if you're interested in reading it up.

 

Good to know about the tranny bits, wikkaco0. I had heard that elsewhere as well. Something to keep in mind when I get back to the states and can troll through the junkyards to find the parts I need.

 

ya u need the complete vtec head in the 2nd link, and make sure to replace the hg! i got mine for $200 shipped and he gave me the vc, bolts, and wiring harness.
heres a link about the swap http://www.civicforums.com/forums/115-engine/169411-diy-dx-lx-head-swap-ex-vtec.html not my favorite place in the world but it has a lot of info.
i read the ex tranny has shorter gears so its supposed to keep vtec engaged when shifting at redline. and good point about the axles, i think only the lx and dx have the same axles, if that.

 

What is HG? Head gasket?

I appreciate all the advice, so we know that we need to get the vehicle breathing, do the head swap, and work on the flywheel, clutch, and I want to throw in a short thow just for the fun of it.

Since I have the tranny, I'll need to boost, I am wanting to boost, but still can't find a Super Charger that will work or can be modded to fit.

The last thing we need to do for the beginners set up is the suspension options. As I said I want to go autocross, so were gonna need new shocks, struts, lower the car and play with the camber angles a bit right? Time for more research.

I appreciate it guys, I really do.

 

yes it is....
hmm, ur kind of all over the place here. let me get this straight
ok so ur just basically getting a list of all possible parts that can fit on a 7thgen?
or are u actually planning for a build. b/c ur already moving onto suspension when you just decided u want to boost. idk!

 

I've been wanting boost for a week now...

But, what we are doing here is not listing all the possible parts, were doing a pencil and paper build and discussing WHY we should use those parts. Hence why things are kinda of bouncing all over the place.

Im consolodating what you guys are agreeing on onto the first post of this thread. That way when the next SUPER Noob that shows up wondering how to tune up their cars, and have zero personal tuning experience, they can see a complete build theory in easy to read format, then read through the rest of the page to hopefully get a better understanding of why and how.

Sorry if I seem all over the place. Im very ADD.

But right now we have basic Engine (Head Swap) and Exaughst setup (Intake, Headers, Exhaughst). Boost is a discussion that has allready been touched on (A supercharger will have to be fabricated, the ellectric one I found sucks donky balls, You guys say to go turbo, but it's my car, and I don't want to go turbo) and since I don't think a consensus could be reached, I moved onto the next area: Suspension.

If there is more work to be done in the engine, let me know. Because I am a total Noob here.



That an now we have a single focused thread for a car type and a discussion on appropriate mod types, as opposed to having 400 little bity threads from 40 different noobs about a different aspect of the same vehicle. Puts everything in one place. Same querries, but I am not clogging up the rest of the forums trying to figure things out.

 

I've been wanting boost for a week now...

That way when the next SUPER Noob that shows up wondering how to tune up their cars, and have zero personal tuning experience, they can see a complete build theory in easy to read format, then read through the rest of the page to hopefully get a better understanding of why and how.

ie. me.:thehump: