There isn't much after market support for the D17. The highest N/A D17 I've seen was 138whp and that was with a stage 2 cam, i/h/cat-less exhaust and k-pro on a near *perfect* tune.

All of that costs about $3,000. Anyone who has an extra $5,000+ lying around is more likely to go with a boost/swap option because you get more HP and more Potential for your dollar.

The Dezod turbo kit for the D17 sells for about $3,000 (plus a little more for a fuel management and injectors, ect) and there are guys making 180-220whp on stock blocks with those kits.

It just doesn't make sense to build the D17.

 

http://www.d-series.org/forums/showthread.php?t=85144

http://www.d-series.org/forums/showthread.php?t=73117


http://www.d-series.org/forums/showthread.php?t=81420

 

133.48 whp 117.57 tq all motor untuned dynojet
188.87 whp 187.99 tq 75 shot n20 untuned dynojet
147.5 hhp 130.5 htq all mtr tuned church's dynapack

Engine/Performance Modifications:
bored out throttle body
K&N fipk2 intake
AEM cam gear
crower stage 2 NA cam
crower valve springs and titanium retainers
HP full race header
HP o2 sim
DC TCS exhaust soon to swap the axle back for a hks muffler.
zex spark plugs
HONDATA kpro tuned
Ported head
Zex wet kit, purge, heater, and guage 65 shot right now
exedy stage 1 organic clutch
ES motor mount inserts

http://www.civicforums.com/forums/members/6533-djmota.html

Still less money than a Dezod turbo setup. Just under 150whp with the stock bottom end isn't all that bad.

 

see everyone just builds the top what about the bottom end? Well you know what, This summer hopefully i can get a start in building an all motor d17 and if i can make at least 200 whp I'll be happy with that!

 

No my friend you wont. You will spend more then 6000 to build an all motor D17 that will barely pull a 14 sec qtr. And after you spend all you time and hard earned money you will realize that its just this simple. Your D17 is not the motor to go NA with. The best way for you to gain any real significant power out of that car is with a turbo. You can sit there and be in denial all you want but that fact is people have already built those engines NA and the facts remain that its takes to much money and to much time to get back so very very little.

Read this forum and have a talk with this guy. he will point you in the right direction.

http://www.d-series.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1148242#post1148242

 

yeah speak w/ sppedfoos he is king of the d17 on here, he has helped me and my sis out alot.

d17 would be nearly impossible to get to 200hp w/o turbo
1)the computer dosent let you make any hp/torque w/ a cam gear(this usually gives you only 3hp anyways, but just another trick you cant use on the d17)
2)its not supported as much in the aftermarket
3)which means more money into customs parts b/c the companies dont support the d17, which leads more people to do a turbo setup(i personally would like to see a company make a supercharger for the d17, but then again thats just me)

Good luck, i hope you do reach your mark of 200hp and keep us posted w/ how to's and pics along the way.
p.s. talk w/ SPEEDFOOS
3)

 

well you are not the only one that has a desire to get some N/A ponies out of a D17, i as well am one of them. one of few out there. but i have not and cannot start on it for a while for i don't have the money but i will be trying i have determined that. of course i would be happy with just 150 and since the one with 138 is with a built bottom end then i am sure that i could have a good chance of doing that. it is going to be a built bottom end, high compression, light rods, and many of the other goodies that are found on most N/A builds, including ITB's. most of this stuff will be researched and custom built for it but hey i don't care it is my build and if i want to spend the money on it who gives a fuck. hell i am going to start with a new engine anyways for right now i got a d17a6 and since i don't want to blow this engine up and be without one for this car i am going to go out and get another one (d17a2). but like i said just build what you want, who cares what others think. hell you may even make them shit a brick, but look at it this way if you do it correctly then you can't make them worse then stock.

 

Yoshinizu thanks for the support and agreeing with me.. and i was planing on buying a D17a2 so i can keep my motor in my car until it is time and also have mine as a back up just incase all fails.

to everyone else yes i no who speedfoos is i talked to him before on civic7.com and i seen and now all about his turbo'd D17 and he has great numbers for a turbo'd D17 but in my opinion i think a 200 hp NA D17 is possible and so what if it runs only 14's on a quarter mile, what matters to me is the fact i took a D17 and made it to were it is at plus i want it to be my daily driver still so i won't be going to the track every weekend with it. The only thing that can be done is just wait and see what happens if i start it this summer i will post up what i do. Thank you everyone for your comments and opinions and if everyone thinks i'm stupid for this then i just might be but its my urge to be different then everyone else and to try and never give up or loose hope in it.

 

as long as your dedicated to it and have the money go for dont let us stop you i hope w/ more and more of you guy building the d17 more companies will support it in the aftermarket b/c i've tried to build one and i wasnt too happy w/ it. so maybe in a few years it will be come mucho easier to build on the d17 for hp.

Please when u do built up the motor post alot of pics and how to's b/c im very interested in seeing an n/a d17. im still skeptical but go fir it man prove me wrong.

Good Luck

 

well considering 150whp is the basic mark with a NA D17 with headwork and a stage 2 cam tuned properly, you can break that easily with higher comp pistons and say a stage 3 cam, i have alot of info on building a NA d17 if you guys want it... if you want 200hp it will take alot but can certainly be done with enough money. i have a list of companies for custom parts and everything that you will really need if you guys want it.. also talk to a guy named bomberman on civicforums he is halfway through a built NA setup..

 

i would definitely like that list, but like i said it will be a while before i get to start for i am still paying the loan off. but till then i am doing me my research cause that is needed for every good build.

 

here are some tech articles and resources i used to find all my info and hopefully some of it will help you guys:
http://www.turbomagazine.com/tech/07...ath/index.html
http://www.aa1car.com/library/2004/eb20432.htm
http://www.bgsoflex.com/displacement.html
http://e30m3performance.com/tech_art...nic/sonic3.htm
http://www.team-integra.net/sections...?ArticleID=484
http://www.team-integra.net/sections...?ArticleID=471
http://www.wallaceracing.com/runnertorquecalc.php
http://www.metal-wear.com/
http://www.tprmag.com/issue/2/2_camshafts.shtml
http://www.superhonda.com/forum/f49/...t-tech-153746/
http://www.teammfactory.com/gearcalculator.php?refid=HT
http://www.homemadeturbo.com/forum/i...?topic=39723.0
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1983993&page=4
http://theoldone.com/components/
http://sms-products.com/index.html
http://jdmfabtech.com/
http://www.honda-performance.com/nproducts.asp

everything to why camshaft is better for you to intake manifold calculators to ITB info , some info on block thickness if you want to increase the displacement which would help the engine breath ,some little things to help increase horsepower NA, and some good companies for custom parts to set your ride apart if you so choose.
here is the list of parts and places to get parts most are without labor but some the job is basically a labor so ya here ya go.

Headwork

P&P with Larger valve bore etc -$700-1000
Depending on company and level of porting either Endyn or KMS
http://theoldone.com/components/cyli...g_and_Menu.htm
http://www.honda-performance.com/services-porting.asp

conversion to vtec head and possible new engine-$300-600
complete head swap with new ecu buy off a wreck or new engine from wreck

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Camshafts Depending on Vtec vs Non

Vtec Head D17A2:

Stage 2 or 3 camshaft-$380 Crower
http://www.dezod.com/cat_camshafts.cfm

Non-Vtec Head D17A1:

Custom ground camshafts: $325-480 dollars Crower or Colt Cams , both have been emailed and will make a custom grind for our car
To B. Campbell,
Thank-you, for contacting us.
Sorry we have not seen this model as of yet.
However, I have been working with cams for over 25 years and designing
something new has always been my one of my passions.
A few questions need to be answered first on the valve train, example: solid
or Hyd lifters, roller or flat tappet, sohc or dohc etc.
We would need to see your cam first to determine what the stock lift and
duration is. At this point I can design something with you over telephone
that will suit what you're after as well as cost.
There is no charge if we can't do anything for you. We will also pay for
the return shipping back to you if this is the case.
If you are interested please give us a call at your convenience and I will
go over the details.
Thank-you,
Geoff Bardal
FOR OUR U.S. CUSTOMERS REGARDING SHIPPING
When sending in your cams, via any courier service or the post office.
Please put as the value of the cams to be under $10.00.
This falls under NAFTA and no duty charges will be inflicted on you.
Please put on the way bill as well as on the package.
"Damaged Camshaft for Repair and Return"
PAYMENT
We only accept International Money Orders in US funds made out to Colt Cams
Inc.
COLT CAMS INC.
#54 - 3347 262 nd Street
Langley, BC
V4W 3V9
TEL: (604) 856-3571
FAX: (604) 856-3572
www.coltcams.com
geoff1@coltcams.com
www.coltcams.com

Brent,
If it is going to be a custom grind you are going to have to send in the specs along with your cam. The price for that would be $100 and the motor that you have is a non vtec, the D17A2 is a vtec motor. the cams are different. We dont make cams for single cam non vtec honda motors. but if you can get the specs that you want for your cam, we can do it.



Thank You,

Marco Romero
Crower Cams & Equipment Co.
Phone (619) 690-7806
Fax (619) 661-6466

http://www.crower.com/cat/import/honda/cams/d17a2.shtml

Also Bisimoto will also do a custom regrind to whatever stage you want for $225 with a provided stock cam

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Spring and retainer-$300-350 Crower or Supertech http://www.dezod.com/cat_camshafts.cfm

Valves +.5 mm overbore set-$265 KMS performance
http://www.honda-performance.com/info-lv2.asp?id=312


so that brings to headwork with a vtec head to: $1995
headwork without vtec to : $2095
headwork and conversion to vtec : $2595

all without labor and shipping costs on some
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bottom End


Sleeves-$250 Darton $750(installed by Darton)
http://www.darton-international.com/sl_import.htm
The only sleeves we have for the D17 blocks are the 300 Series open deck sleeves. The sleeves come for stock bore size and have a max bore of 77mm. You can go with a 78mm bore on the D16 block but the D17 is casted differently than the D16 so they would not use the same sleeves. The D17 300-011 sleeves take about a week to make and cost $250.00 for the set. Installation is an additional $500.00 and takes about 15- 20 days.

Let me know if you have any more questions.


Thanx,

John


John Catapang
National Sales Manager
Darton International, Inc.
2380 Camino Vida Roble Bldg. K
Carlsbad, CA. 92011

sales@DARTON-international.com
tel:
tel2:
fax:
800-713-2786
760-603-9895
760-603-9629


Pistons: $500-520 stock bore vs custom bore Wiseco

http://www.wiseco.com/Catalogs/Automobile.aspx

Brentt,
We can custom make the part for that bore and whatever compression you would like. Cost is approximately $139.36 each (includes rings,pins,clips and coated skirts) and it takes 4-5 weeks.
Best Regards,
Wiseco Piston Co. Inc.

Crankshaft lightening- $465 – KMS
http://www.honda-performance.com/ser...ning.asp#crank

Connecting Rods- $785 – Crower Maxilite
http://www.dezod.com/pd_crower_maxilite.cfm

there is a rumor of carrillo making a cheaper version for rods.

Shot peened and balanced connection rods- $135 if you don’t want aftermarket and just a little more insurance




------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------







Fuel Managment
Standalone ECUs- $1000-2000 Hondata K-Pro or AEM EMS
Hondata depends on price of donor ecu
http://www.dezod.com/cat_engine_management.cfm
http://www.hondata.com/prices.html

Return line Kit with fuel pump upgrade:$650 Street Level Performance
http://www.streetlevelperformance.co...ion Kit.aspx ( this could also be pieced together for a little cheaper)

Larger Injecters-$100(used)- 546(new) RSX injectors
http://www.dezod.com/cat_honda_oem_parts.cfm


Intake manifolds or ITBs

ITB- $500- 3000 Danstoy, Hayward Performance Intake Systems, ExtrudaBody, DIY

http://extrudabody.com/Products/ITBs.html

http://www.haywardperformance.com/intake.htm#custom

Our custom ITB setup will run for 1,200.00. That is hardware only. We can either use Toyota 20 valve ITB's 40mm, 44mm or brand new TWM ITB's which are a little more pricier. You would also need to run a Full stand alone management.

Feel free to ask us any more questions if you have them

Jed
Manager of Danstoy
http://www.danstoy.net/products.html


Custom NA intake manifold- $1050-1250 Endyn

We haven't built one for the D17's. We have built a few D16 manifolds, however.
I'd have to see one of the stockers to tell you if we could do it.
Be prepared though....the fabbed manifolds run in the $1050-1250.00 range.

http://theoldone.com/components/

*all prices where what they quoted me a while ago so they dont represent what you could pay*

and for the record i did the research for all this i also go by civic-driver on civicforums so dont think i stole this from someone else. hope this helps

 

thank you much!!

 

yea thanks man for all those links it is a big help

 

Have fun with it guys, and hope your wallets are nice and thick to make 200hp on a NA D17. We've all gone round and round on this before (with most of the folks here). It's going to be hard and expensive to get numbers like that on an NA 7th gen. I'm going to put a price tag of $10K on a 200whp NA D17. It's not unattainable, in fact the formula is pretty easy and we all know it. It's just no one is prepared to pay for it.

Good luck with it. No hatin' but I'll take 400whp for $10K over 200whp any day of the week.

 

well i thank you for that, and i will have fun with it since it sounds like a good challenge to keep me entertained for quite some time. also i don't know about 200 but i do plan to make more then stock that is my goal for i know if i do set my goals on that i will not get it since that is my luck. but i know what i want to do to it and all so i do all that and then provide some numbers but till then i will keep my wets dreams of a N/A D17 to myself and show it off when it is finished. till then i wanna see more then 400 come out of a turbo'd D17 but too bad i will never achieve that since i am going N/A.

 

By all means have at it man. NA has a lot more reliability than turbo, I'll give you that. Hell, I'm pulling my tranny today because something is wrong with it that I'll be traces back to the turbo. There's one dude (that I know of) making like 415 or 420 on turbo'd D17A1. There are two more of us who will very soon have setups that are postured to more than that. Octane will be the only real limiter.

 

There's one dude (that I know of) making like 415 or 420 on turbo'd D17A1.

oh good deal i was hoping someone would hit above that.

Supermex's car. It was 434.3 whp on a Mustang dyno but there was nitrous, alcohol, 104 race fuel and 21lbs of turbo boost involved.

Still those numbers were far from modest !

that is very true and i bet you could get even better i bet. but like everyone says (i know this to be very true) money will get you every piece horse power you want but the $ signs only go up exponentially as the HP numbers go up. but over 400 that is nice to hear, hell for that matter speedfoos your numbers are nice to hear. sucks about the tranny problem though but still i like those numbers. i just like the feel of N/A for this build. now don't get me wrong one of these days i do plan to get another civic and full drag it out with turbo and all, and i hope that thing will be a beast, but for right now i want this to be an entertaining project DD.

there's really no point to do a n/a built with that motor or chassis.

heavy car+weak motor =slow

i could see using it as a daily thats about it though.

all that money would just go to waste imo

i have heard about this heavy car stuff and weak motor but i have also heard the motor is not much different then the D16 for weeknesses. but this is what i have heard, not saying that i have done research or anything. but i do know the tranny gearing they put on these D17's do seem to do better then the predecessors, that is for what i have ridden in and for what i have driven. and if they are heavier and still pull like mine does (have not done anything to mine except a drop in K&N filter) then fuck i can't wait to see what it will do after it is modded. also since i originally bought this car for its gas mileage (this of which i have gotten 46 miles to the gallon 2 times with windows down since the HX did not come with A/C) and dependability, not to modify it, it would be far too expensive for me right now to get something like a s2000 to just modify from that. sure would be nice though. but i like what i got, just like others i see something modified and i feel that i want to do the same and modify mine. yes mine is going to be a DD and i do plan to cut most of the cost by doing 90% of the work myself.

 

Supermex's car. It was 434.3 whp on a Mustang dyno but there was nitrous, alcohol, 104 race fuel and 21lbs of turbo boost involved.

Still those numbers were far from modest !

 

there's really no point to do a n/a built with that motor or chassis.

heavy car+weak motor =slow

i could see using it as a daily thats about it though.

all that money would just go to waste imo

 

Yeah wik, most people don't know who Hector is on this board, so he go turned into "one dude". I enjoyed my car when it was just a N/A bolt-on bitch. Still fun to drive and was reliable.

As far as the D17s, the only thing really different (and potentially weaker because of it) is that the rods are a smidge longer than the D16s. That's really about it from a mechanical "weakness" standpoint. Everything else is stock Honda quality. The D16 can't take any more boost on a stock bottom end than the D17 can. There's just aren't as many years of development behind the D17 like there is with all the other Ds.

 

i agree with foos on everything ecept the part that a 200whp na d17 will never be reliable event less than a turbo imo lol with all the headwork and shit i think its a ticking time bomb if a na d17 is capable or reaching 200whp wich i doubt

 

my sis is getting a 2001 civic ex, and wants to be in the high 15's to low 16's w/ here D17 . is that possible w/ a budget. i know she'll want an cai, exaust, headers, and were going to have to do something about that tiny ass exaust pipe hiding before the cat i believe, but what else can she do to get down her times and still remain a good dd w/o turbo or nitrous. i know its a good engine she had one in the past and these 7th gen are fun to drive. i would tell her to get a lsd but there outrageous is price for her car. she'll want cf hood and trunk for lighter wieght, but after those mods what else can she do. i've followed the links on this thread but in your opinion what would be the most bang for the buck type thing.

 

Define budget. My budget for 400whp is $10K on my D17.

If she can drive, then an entire new exhaust, intake, header, a Crower Stage 1 cam, and a piggyback unit will get her into the low 16s no problem.

 

ok thanks she most likely can do that, speedfoos for 7th gen president, lol

 

I would also recommend the ES motor mount inserts. They're like $25 and go in the front and rear mounts and almost completely eliminate wheel hop. Great mod, that will definitely help getting off the line.

 

Energy Suspension motor mount inserts are polyeurethane. Car vibrates and shakes alot after. If you can live with the rattles and noise then they're great. If you can live with a lowered car with stiff dampers, you can live with Energy Suspension motor mount inserts.