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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Any advice on this map ? Running HTS on a Z6 basemap. OBD1 HA Motorsports chipped P06. Engine build is Y7 block bored to 76mm,honed,and decked block guard
Vitara 76mm pistons
Hastings rings
ARP head studs
Mahle MLS head gasket
Speedfactory no notch rods Stock Y7 head
Borg Warner S200SX on a T3 .48 AR housing
eBay log manifold
2.5 exhaust
Bosch 650 injectors
Quantum 255 fuel pump
eBay intercooler and piping
NGK BRK7Es gapped at .030
Accel supercoil
Stock throttle body
Running 17lbs boost

Car runs good,idles good and is decently quick once it spools.AFRs look solid. My problem is between about 2800-3200 RPM there is something that sounds like spark knock. It's most noticable in 2nd and 3rd gear under part throttle. It goes away after around 3200 RPM and doesn't make any difference if it's cold or warmed up. Doesn't do it under boost. It's before boost but after idle so probably in the -14.2 to -4.1 columns. Cam timing is dead on and ignition timing is 12 degrees at idle with the service connector shorted although the distributor is advanced all the way towards the firewall to get to 12 degrees. I'm thinking it's something in the tip in ignition correction but haven't played with it much. Plugs look good. Perhaps too much/not enough timing in these columns ? I'm out of ideas and can't get to a tuner right now. Thanks in advance !
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Formerly weebeastie
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Any advice on this map ? Running HTS on a Z6 basemap. OBD1 HA Motorsports chipped P06. Engine build is Y7 block bored to 76mm,honed,and decked block guard
Vitara 76mm pistons
Hastings rings
ARP head studs
Mahle MLS head gasket
Speedfactory no notch rods Stock Y7 head
Borg Warner S200SX on a T3 .48 AR housing
eBay log manifold
2.5 exhaust
Bosch 650 injectors
Quantum 255 fuel pump
eBay intercooler and piping
NGK BRK7Es gapped at .030
Accel supercoil
Stock throttle body
Running 17lbs boost

Car runs good,idles good and is decently quick once it spools.AFRs look solid. My problem is between about 2800-3200 RPM there is something that sounds like spark knock. It's most noticable in 2nd and 3rd gear under part throttle. It goes away after around 3200 RPM and doesn't make any difference if it's cold or warmed up. Doesn't do it under boost. It's before boost but after idle so probably in the -14.2 to -4.1 columns. Cam timing is dead on and ignition timing is 12 degrees at idle with the service connector shorted although the distributor is advanced all the way towards the firewall to get to 12 degrees. I'm thinking it's something in the tip in ignition correction but haven't played with it much. Plugs look good. Perhaps too much/not enough timing in these columns ? I'm out of ideas and can't get to a tuner right now. Thanks in advance ! View attachment 140292
Have you pulled a couple of degrees of timing in that range yet to see what would happen? Can you make it go away? On a dyno you could easily knock this out by seeing what the torque curve is doing while its making the noise. What are AFR's at when its making the noise? If it's pig rich it could be fuel knock, but more likely its detonation.


Might gap the plugs a little tighter. Take them down to .025. It'll likely pick up a little bit.


12 degrees at 17psi with a y7 might be rolling the dice. D's survive much better at around 10 degrees at peak boost. Just my two cents and my experience in the past tuning these.
 
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So just pull some timing out of the map and see if it goes away?

Leave tip in alone, pull like 4 degrees out overall, see what happens. It will probably lose a bit of peppiness, but will still be drivable on those ignition curves you show above.

If it goes away, just knowing it can be fixed with a tune is really nice piece of mind lol, and isnt something mechanical.

If it does go away, maybe stay there for a bit until you can get it retuned if you dont feel comfortable street tuning ignition curves yourself.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks for the advice. I'll pull a few degrees in that area and see if it's better. Might regap the plugs if the weather is ok tomorrow too. AFR when it does it is mid 13s. It runs 14.5 to 15.3 cruising and high 11s under boost. No metal in the oil I changed it yesterday and the new build has about 12K on it. All clearances were in spec when I built it. Fresh valve adjustment about two weeks ago. It's annoying but you can ease up on the throttle when it happens and it goes away. Ease back into the throttle and it comes back like it's happening at a certain TPS range. It's not worse under a load either. Not an exhaust leak or rattle. I've run several maps and they all seem to do this to some extent.
 

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What fuel do you use?

Like @Soul Engineering said, that timing map in boost is pretty spicy for a D honestly. Pulling some timing across the map won't hurt. Just up boost a tad to get your spicy back :)

AFR when it does it is mid 13s.
You're at 28-3200rpm when it happens, so you cant be in high boost yet with that turbo, probably just beginning to load, so AFR is probably alright there, but is a bit on the lean side of things.

Speaking of AFR, here's another thing, when it makes the noise, are you loading the motor (full or very heavy throttle), or just cruising part/light load?

If you are in boost/load there, might be worth trying to fatten up the fuel map to see if fuelling fixes it. Shoot for mid to low 11:1 in that area of the map if you are hearing it under heavy throttle.

Also as @Soul Engineering suggested, tighten the plug gap. 0.025" is a good gap for boost levels you are seeing.
 

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Also, are you running in closed loop fuel control with the wideband? If so, make sure you remember to disable this before adjusting any fuel maps!

You'd be surprised how easy it is to forget this, before realizing why none of your changes to the map are affecting shit haha
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Also, are you running in closed loop fuel control with the wideband? If so, make sure you remember to disable this before adjusting any fuel maps!

You'd be surprised how easy it is to forget this, before realizing why none of your changes to the map are affecting shit haha
Thanks man ! Closed loop is disabled. I mainly run 93 octane Shell or 93 octane Amoco Ultimate when I can't find Shell. And not full or heavy throttle it's maybe at 25% or so.
 

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Thanks man ! Closed loop is disabled. I mainly run 93 octane Shell or 93 octane Amoco Ultimate when I can't find Shell. And not full or heavy throttle it's maybe at 25% or so.
Sounds like detonation to me
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Kinda what I was thinking. It still did it with the distributor centered which would have been way retarded so I'm not sure if pulling timing will do much . To get 12 degrees on a Y7 running OBD1 you either set the idle columns at like 21.50 or advance the distributor all the way towards the firewall with to the idle columns at 12 or 13 or whatever gets you 12 on the light.Big controversy over how people correct that but the main thing is base timing is 12 with the timing light and service connector shorted at warm idle. The blocked was decked and head resurfaced so I don't know how much that offset cam timing if any. Nearest tuner is Jason Waters in Atlanta and I'm 4 hours away . I appreciate everyone's advice,I've owned over 30 Hondas since 2001 but this was my first self build and only been tuning for 8 months .
 

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Formerly weebeastie
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Kinda what I was thinking. It still did it with the distributor centered which would have been way retarded so I'm not sure if pulling timing will do much . To get 12 degrees on a Y7 running OBD1 you either set the idle columns at like 21.50 or advance the distributor all the way towards the firewall with to the idle columns at 12 or 13 or whatever gets you 12 on the light.Big controversy over how people correct that but the main thing is base timing is 12 with the timing light and service connector shorted at warm idle. The blocked was decked and head resurfaced so I don't know how much that offset cam timing if any. Nearest tuner is Jason Waters in Atlanta and I'm 4 hours away . I appreciate everyone's advice,I've owned over 30 Hondas since 2001 but this was my first self build and only been tuning for 8 months .
Where you located? A few of us are about 6 Hours from Atlanta. North though
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Near Murfreesboro TN area,there's a few places around but they mainly do domestics and HP Tuner stuff . Used to be a guy in Murfreesboro,ECU Adam that did street tunes but he went in the HVAC business.
 

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Near Murfreesboro TN area,there's a few places around but they mainly do domestics and HP Tuner stuff . Used to be a guy in Murfreesboro,ECU Adam that did street tunes but he went in the HVAC business.
I'm about the same distance away as Atlanta, maybe a little further. Pull some timing in that window, and perhaps across the board.

You said it does it cold and hot, correct?

Been fighting detonation on a vehicle I've been working on. You'd be surprised what 1 degree in the right direction can do. You know what cells are effected both RPM and in/hg. Pull timing there to start. I'd start with one degree and see what happens. Do you have the ability to Real Time Program via an Ostrich, Demon, Cobra RTP, etc.?
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I will try that tomorrow, took a ride earlier and pulled a few degrees out but didn't seem to make much difference and it was too damn cold. I'm off for a week for Christmas so maybe I can nail it down. I do have an Ostrich and Hulog. I know these Vitara builds are supposed to be noisy but this doesn't sound like piston noise. My piston to wall clearance is .0025 so that's a lot less than what some guys are running. I was watching the TPS while datalogging earlier and it starts just over 15% throttle. Should have K swapped it but everyone is doing that and wanted to see what a single cam could do. Thanks for the suggestions !
 

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Any advice on this map ? Running HTS on a Z6 basemap. OBD1 HA Motorsports chipped P06. Engine build is Y7 block bored to 76mm,honed,and decked block guard
Vitara 76mm pistons
Hastings rings
ARP head studs
Mahle MLS head gasket
Speedfactory no notch rods Stock Y7 head
Borg Warner S200SX on a T3 .48 AR housing
eBay log manifold
2.5 exhaust
Bosch 650 injectors
Quantum 255 fuel pump
eBay intercooler and piping
NGK BRK7Es gapped at .030
Accel supercoil
Stock throttle body
Running 17lbs boost

Car runs good,idles good and is decently quick once it spools.AFRs look solid. My problem is between about 2800-3200 RPM there is something that sounds like spark knock. It's most noticable in 2nd and 3rd gear under part throttle. It goes away after around 3200 RPM and doesn't make any difference if it's cold or warmed up. Doesn't do it under boost. It's before boost but after idle so probably in the -14.2 to -4.1 columns. Cam timing is dead on and ignition timing is 12 degrees at idle with the service connector shorted although the distributor is advanced all the way towards the firewall to get to 12 degrees. I'm thinking it's something in the tip in ignition correction but haven't played with it much. Plugs look good. Perhaps too much/not enough timing in these columns ? I'm out of ideas and can't get to a tuner right now. Thanks in advance ! View attachment 140292


you didn't mention the most important part

WHat fuel are you running?
 

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never mind wednsday morning drinks
you didn't mention the most important part

WHat fuel are you running?
own me



w9ith a shit log mani and s,mallish turbo there is extra back pressure and charge contamination ./

almost alway will have a pingming in the mid load cruise ing ish no boost area ..

this is my 91 piss gas shit mani "tune"has a z6 cam but still relaventish .
I beat the shit out of this shit
 

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Formerly weebeastie
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Lol I understand . Going to mess with it today regap plugs and pull some timing I'll update later.
You said the head had been milled a bit right? Block decked as well? I'd almost want to see you pull distributor timing back to 11* at hot idle with the connector jumped. (one full degree retarded from what it should be) Drive and see if ping ping rattle rattle click click was gone.

Just a thought if you don't want to mess with the map a ton. I would pull some timing up top though on that map though. Worst case, you send logs, DrT and I remote tune with you.
 
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