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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I didnt know where to put this......

So I put it here. I thought my car is NA after all, so, why not...

Now the back story (Please dont skip it as it has some good stuff and I spent forever typing it up.)

So I bought a chip kit a while back which came with a custom EEPROM with a basemap from a popular site (I have mentioned it before but I will not mention it here)

In his defense, its apparent he made the basemap with reliability in mind. He ramped up the fuel an extreme amount and disabled the o2 sensor (which I didn't quite understand), so my gas mileage tanked. I went from about 40-42 mpg to about 30-34mpg depending on how much I got on it. There was uncombusted fuel spitting from my exhaust pipe and the plugs indicated I was running very rich.

I thought that it would be worthwhile and after a failed attempt in these very For Sale forums(nudge nudge), I went ahead and paid for a Burn1 the good old fashion way. I did this as a little investigative measure and because I didnt wanna add to the Willems Burner Woes thread. Got the stuff in today, set it up, and got things going.

I thought maybe he dumped fuel as an easy way to ramp up the timing and keep things cool, but low and behold, after pulling the map from the chip, the timing was very close to that of the stock p06 maps from PGMFI i found and in some parts LESS THAN STOCK and the fuel was, as i thought, way increased. This left me very puzzled. Dump fuel? Pull Timing? But.....but...but...why?

After saving the map for future use, I cleared the old 27SF512 and went to work. I put on the famous p06-301 bin and noticed an instant increase in low rpm pull (butt dyno, but nevertheless supported on basic tuning principles)

Since I dont have a dyno handy and the drag strip is closed until Wednesday, I decided to test and tune the only way I knew how. Race the same car over and over. I want to preface this by saying I didnt NOT use any "modern" tuning instruments(wideband, ostrich, det cans). Simple math and studying.

He has an auto and considering it was 3 consecutive runs, the temp was about equal (if anything it got a little hotter) and the gas usage was MINIMAL on his car and I figured it was as good as I was going to get.

I threw my laptop in the car and went driving. 1st run was the stock p06 bin. I did not modify it in any way in order to get the BEST possible comparison. 40 Roll, 3 Honks, and I'm off, I jumped out about half a car and then he reels me in and wins by 1-1.5.

I pulled over turned the car off, popped in the "Pro Tuned" map, and went driving. Same 40 roll, 3 Honks and I jump out again this time holding about a 1 car lead.

Frustrated, but somehow not surprised, I finally pop in the map I have been working on (Props to Mightyjoe AKA Wade for help) and take off. My buddy knows the deal. 40 roll, 3 honks and we're off, this time I jump out a car again, but then I start pulling, 2 cars 3 cars 4 cars, and I shut down. No reason to keep going. The car pulled harder and faster and the shift light, which was previously set to high to be usable, was good to go.

The launch control was previously set at 7k per the interweb map. I dont know about you, but I have 175 width 50 dollar street tires, I dont plan on launching at 7k anytime soon. I set it to a more usable rpm and cant wait until Wednesday to test it. Sadly the local track is only an 1/8, but I think any changes seen in the 1/8th will translate over to the 1/4.

Mods in sig.
 

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well did the tuner have any other excuse??? or did he just say it was a ¨base map so stfu¨
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Havent talked to him. Wut am I gonna say? Your basemap sucked I want my money back? Oh yea btw I cleared it from the chip and its saved on my computer but I promise I havent modified it.
 

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a basemap is exactly that, a base map. its meant to get you to the tuner so you can get a real map in it. not for you to go and beat on
 

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so what exactly is this "basemap" you bought? did you give him a list of your setup so he could E-tune it or???? did he say it was going to make power? did he think you where turbo. cause it sounds like he made the map for turbo.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
I say basemap but he advertises it as a "custom" chip almost as a tune alternative. he asks your mods and wants specifics and "hand makes" you a chip that he claims is NOT made to get you to your tuner, but as a "best you could imagine for $25" tune and "Dyno Proven to Add HP". Ordinarily, I would consider this type of Ebay sounding mumbo jumbo as BS, but the fact he is a well known tuner caused me to second guess myself. I call it a basemap because a tune would be giving it to much credit. If i put Don't rely on DeTunes, people wouldn't read it.

Nevertheless a good tuner, which seems to be his reputation, would know that there is no sense in pulling timing from a stock map unless a variable has changed that would necessitate it. And on top of that he put in a lot of fuel.

No, the map was a NA map. That much is for SURE. And he would have been better off just sticking a stock p06, no fuel added. As Bone and many have said before, a stock p06 bin is more than rich enough stock for a few minor bolt ons

If you look in the cruising portions especially, he pulled timing and added as much as 20% more fuel to an already RICH car. The top end isnt as bad, but isnt anything special either.

Here is a pic of the maps (for those of you who dont have crome)

 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Here are the maps to the famous p06-301 bin for reference.. (Props to ryan89crx) I also just got word the local 1/8 mile track is closed this Wednesday and wont be open until Friday for the weekly All-Domestic Fun and Grudge Night where the slowest cars run mid-high 6s. Last week me and my buddy got laughed out for running a 10.1 :(


 

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I've had problems with a basemap before too.

Got a Kenji P28 with a basemap loaded from him.. well.. couldn't even start the car on it. Like commmme on man..

Loaded a new map and she fired right up.
 

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Yea, I would never boost on a basemap I didn't have the abillity to tweak.

I will say this though,I had xenocron make me a startup basemap for the new motor since I didn't want to risk me not knowing what I was doing working with low comp pistons.I had his map on my ostrich to make any changes if needed.I started it up and these were the afrs...

http://www.hondahost.net/view_video.php?viewkey=7563370ded05f5a3bf3e

That basemap was dead on and only required some small tweaking of the battery offsets to get it to hold a steady 14.7. Timing was really conservative,but I still didn't boost on it.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I would never boost on a basemap either, but as I mentioned before the thing that irks me is

A) Its a simple non VTEC NA map(which he obviously knew as he didnt touch either high camp map all 0s)
B) He pulled timing and added a ton of fuel IN THE CRUISING RANGE, which doesnt make any sense at all
C) Disabled open loop which would have helped the cruising range problem, but instead, masked it
D) Put in a bunch of fuel at idle which made the car very unhappy

Yes I do understand that he didnt have a dyno or a wideband, or even access to my car, but I have said 100 times, some stuff is just basic EFI 101.
 

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This has he baffled also. I'm not to sure on what hes thinking?

Adding all this fuel can wash out the rings.

I would have to agree with keto06 on this basic efi101.;)
 

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He was propbably thinking "omg more fuel means more power!!!! Now lets pull timing to make it safe.All done" lol.
 

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Where did he get the reputation of being a "Good" tuner from? I haven't seen anything here that would put him anywhere close to good lol.
 

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a basemap is exactly that, a base map. its meant to get you to the tuner so you can get a real map in it. not for you to go and beat on
X2, this shouldn't have been a surprise, but it sucks to hear that it was so far out to lunch for you, especially if he sold it as a "custom tune".
 

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A basemap is a basemap is a basemap...this thread is pointless.
 
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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
If you would have read up, you would understand why it isnt worthless.

Its more a point of not relying on people who say they are good tuners or have a rep as being a good tuner until you see their work for yourselves. This, I think, is the "moral" of the story.

How many people post on here everyday to Get a chip kit from XXX.com or PPP.net and run their cars on the maps that come on the chips? A LOT. How many of those people are going to buy a Burn1 like I did, download Crome, upload the map and compare? Not many. Thats what Im trying to say. This person is one of the leading suppliers of tuning equipment as well as one of the handful of "authorized tuners" of eCtune.

As I posted in the title its the appearance of an upgrade that I take the biggest issue with.

Oh and RRusell, Im glad you agree. I thought I knew a LOT about tuning until I read your thread. It taught me even more. Your agreement means a lot to me.
 

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first of all if you even bought something like this on Ebay it's your own fault.

I do agree with what your saying what your saying. adding fuel and taking out timing doesn't make any sense. it's not like you have high compression pistons or whatever to increase the compression where it might knock on stock timing. not saying it would or not depending on what fuel your using, etc. I dunno why you'd even be looking for something like this. you haven't even really done anything to your car. you may even be losing power. you have a bone stock motor and you throw a bigger manifold and tb on it. I haven't seen dyno's or dyno or anything. the dx manifold might be a restriction. but I wouldn't even be looking at getting it tuned until I got a cam and increase the compression. If I was going n/a the first thing I put on would be p29's.
 

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