Honda D Series Forum banner
1 - 13 of 13 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
76 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Okay, so in an effort to figure out what my cooling issue has been, I pulled the head yesterday and removed the SCE copper HG and decided to install a OEM D16Z6 HG.

My instructions for the ARP said 60 ft/lbs with their moly lube, or 80 with 30 weight motor oil. I had used up the moly lube on the initial install so I decided to use motor oil. I didn't feel real comfortable with the idea of 80 ftlbs on a alum block, so I figured I'd just go up to 70...

Okay, so install goes well, I go multiple steps up to 70. I was going over once more and literally I was at the last stud. I noticed that it started to give. I'm assuming that the threads in the block started to give. The motor was never started with the OEM HG installed...

So here's my options...
1 - Leave it as is, hoping that the final stud (corner stud) is ok and run it like that.

2 - Pull the head, fix it with a helicoil and reinstall using the OEM HG.

3 - Pull the head, fix it with a helicoil and reinstall getting a new OEM.

I'm leaning towards 2 or 3, but I was wondering if I need to toss the new gasket I put on.

Thanks
Drew
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,431 Posts
How do you know the threads started to give? If arp says 80ft/lbs then there shouldnt be an issue with the threads in the block stripping out...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
76 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
How do you know the threads started to give? If arp says 80ft/lbs then there shouldnt be an issue with the threads in the block stripping out...
Well, you know that feeling when a bolt snaps? Where things feel tight, then suddenly start to give? That's what it felt like.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
510 Posts
Well, you know that feeling when a bolt snaps? Where things feel tight, then suddenly start to give? That's what it felt like.
Did you clean your threads prior to putting the studs in? Were the studs in only hand tight?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
247 Posts
try the last one again at 70ft-lbs ... it may start holding again.

sometimes, those move a bit, but then they hold again. It has happened to me 2 times or so.

on my ARPs, i went to 70 with moly, then after 10 heat cycles I retorqued them at 80 ... and after a couple of months when I had doubts about HG leaking oil, I went and tryed those at 90ft-lbs :-D ... all good and holding strong.

use OEM HGs
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
76 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
When I did the initial install of the studs, I used a tap to clean it out. I then lubed the threads on the stud and then installed them hand tight.

With the old SCE HG, the motor has seen 500 miles since the rebuild. Due to strange conditions with the coolant, I figured that the HG probably had a slight leak into the coolant passage which was causing it to over pressurize under high load situations (dyno, autox, etc). Cruising had no such issues.

Anyways, I figured that the copper HG just didn't seal like I had hoped. I pulled the gasket yesterday and oddly enough, everything looked okay. The O-rings made a nice impression on the underside of the gasket, so I'm assuming there was an issue on the top. Anyways, I decided to go with an OEM gasket because it crushes better and it may seal better.

I'll go test the stud and see what happens with a slight bit of torque. I guess it can't get any worse. If it gets worse, it just means retapping with a helicoil.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
76 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Well, I tried applying more torque to the bolt, and it held. I'm going to try running the OEM gasket and such and see what happens. Updates to follow: 12.1:1 compression :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
247 Posts
told ya :-D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
76 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Sad stuff tonight....

It looks like the issue wasn't with the original head gasket. After spending about a half hour bleeding the system (fan had come on maybe 3-4 times), the motor started to get above normal operating temp and I was still seeing bubbles that looked like champagne bubbles :(

Crap crap crap.....

I'm going to contact the machine shop that did some of the work. I went over my paperwork and it said that both the head and the block were decked. When it was overheated, the shop confirmed that the HG blew, causing 0.003" on the block and 0.004" out on the head. I would have thought the decking of both the head and block would have corrected that.

Also, the block was honed for .5mm over pistons. If there had been a crack sleeve(s), I would have thought they'd have caught it. If it's in the head, I would have thought when they were doing the head, they would have seen it.

It doesn't look like the head was ever pressure tested, so that was an oversight on my part for not requesting it.

Well, any suggestions, hints etc? Right now, it looks like my first honda motor is a failure :(
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,586 Posts
There's also a chance, while slight, that when you pulled the head you warped it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
186 Posts
Pull the head, have it tested... That'd be the first thing I'd try.
 
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
Top