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Discussion Starter #1
So, I live in CT, I will drive the car more on the street then the track (if I even track it at all). There are no e85 stations around that I know of. So I'm planning on getting tuned on 93 and leaving it at that for now.

I'll get low/high boost maps done for whatever is safe at this point.

I'm just wondering if anyone out there is running their high boost map on 93+Meth/water injection instead of race gas or e85.

That's really the only option for me IMO. I don't even think it's worth getting a tune for race gas since I'm sure I won't ever keep buying it....

Ugh, lol just found out it's $65/5 gallon for Sunoco race gas they sell right up the street from where I keep my car... 13/gallon isn't horrible but it's not what I'm looking to spend on a car I will likely daily drive...

There is also an E85 station in Rye NY which is like 20-30min away... I guess I COULD do that, but at that point I'd need to change injector sizes... I have Precision 525's now. I can switch them for anything else before I actually use them... I was kind of pissed how it went down the seller basically pushed me towards them even though I made it clear I wanted to have room to make 400hp. I mean they should do that with race gas I suppose but def. not with e85...

I'm obviously not looking to make 400hp on the 93 without meth/water injection... for now I'm just going to ask him to tune it to a safe power level for the 93. I have EGT, WB, Oil temp, Oil Pressure, coolant temp gauges and an s300 so I can make minor adjustments later. Oh and it will be running the WB and stock O2 in open loop for smooth daily drivability.

Thoughts opinions?

Links or personal experience with 93+Water/Meth?
 

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Im not a fan of water meth....its a personal opinion

Nitrous will cool the motor and add hp all around better imho. 525 seem pretty damn small, i went with 750s for my 400whp goal although i too am debating the switch to cam2 leaded 110. It rings in at under $7/gal so its not to bad. If i make the switch i will likely shoot for closer to 450whp. Still undeceided if i wanna be stuck paying double for fuel and being locked into one station
 

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I like water meth.

All we have here is 91 octane at the pumps. My buddy just made 614whp on 91 + water meth.

I tuned a few setups last year with meth and really like it, especially for a stock sleeve motor. Keeps everything really cool and is a hell a lot cheaper than race gas.

Some people dont like it cause they say its not going to spray evenly to each cylinder. But for a street car, I would say its def the best option. Im running it on my setup this year and shooting for 500+whp with stock sleeves.
 

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Im not a fan of water meth....its a personal opinion

Nitrous will cool the motor and add hp all around better imho.
this. water meth has its pluses, but when you tune with water meth and by some chance you run out of it you run lean, a very high chance of screwing stuff up.

if you tune with nitrous and run out, you wiill just run rich, and lose some hp and stuff.

someone correct me if im wrong

I like water meth.

All we have here is 91 octane at the pumps. My buddy just made 614whp on 91 + water meth.

I tuned a few setups last year with meth and really like it, especially for a stock sleeve motor. Keeps everything really cool and is a hell a lot cheaper than race gas.

Some people dont like it cause they say its not going to spray evenly to each cylinder. But for a street car, I would say its def the best option. Im running it on my setup this year and shooting for 500+whp with stock sleeves.
if you take the time and do a direct port setup you eliminate the uneven distro of the nitrous.
 

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I have AEM water meth. I have no e85 around me, and this is my secondary dd. I am around 400hp now and will be going to 600+ after bigger turbo. IMO, it works great, and it lets you know when you are low, and you can wire it in your s300 so it has a fail safe. It is safe and cost effiecient for me.
 

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Most Water/Meth systems have fail safes, for low level or flow problems. The only thing it can't tell is if it's not spraying into the intake enough. If you maintain the system it will not cause you any problems. Alot of people don't like it because they either have never used it (and are afraid of the unknown), or used it back in the day without any failsafes and blew some engines.

E85 is good, but consider that you will use more of it. With E85 the stoichiometric ratio is about 10:1 (IIRC) and regular gas is 14.7:1. I did some math and figured with the lower price of E85, on a street car it actually cost more to run E85 in a short amount of time. There are also other things I don't like about E85, but I won't get into it.

You can make up to 350whp on pump gas (my friend has a Z6 Vitara making 420whp on pump gas and hasn't caused him a problem). Your best bet would be to either get the water/meth and use it on the street for high boost and at the track, or just get some race fuel when you wanna go to the track.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Alright I'm hearing what I thought, I'm going to get it tuned for now on 93 no race gas (it would be just to get a higher HP number that I'll never run again so it's pointless to me).

Over the winter I'll prob. add water meth and get re-tuned next year with that for the high boost map.

I frankly think I'm going to end up running the low boost map all the time. I'm getting older and just don't have the energy for driving a crazy car anymore... lol...

I caught myself basically shaking my fist at some dude passing on the inside the other day... "damn kids driving fast... someone could have been killed!" lol I couldn't believe it, it was like when you hear yourself saying something to your kids your parents used to say...
 

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I was at The Shop in Norwalk CT this past Thursday, talking to the tuner about E85 vs. water meth. I plan on running meth, already installed the snow perforce kit. I know with meth you have to worry about a line popping off or the pump not spraying wile WOT. With that I was a ready to run and upgrade my fuel system to E85. The tuner told me that on E85 you have to be careful with off octane levels. E85 absorbs moister and can change the rating of E85 to any ware from E60 to E80, along with getting a bad batch of fuel. He told me that they have had 4 car that came in with blown motors. When it came down to it, the octane of the E85 was off.
 

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Even if you dont have a failsafe, if you watch your wideband most of the time you'll know when meth stops spraying. Your a/f mixture will lean out about 1.0

So if you see it lean out, let out of the throtle. If you notice it go lean right away, chances are your not going to blow your motor up. Or get your tuner to tune it a little richer than normal and be more conservative on the timing if your that worried.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
W what shop in norwalk? Lol I'm going to ny to get tuned from ct I didn't even know there were any good shops in my area. I am real close to norwalk
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Greeks? I think I know them from outside the car world lol... Guy I know I think gets all his work done there, if I remember right it's his cousins shop..

I'll talk to him about it lol... I'm retarded, I didn't even think about asking them...

I'm still likely going to xenocron though.
 

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Water/methanol mix injection has its place as does E85. Both have advantages and disadvantages and those that knock either have used it for the wrong application or did not do it right or expected more than it could do.

Both are covered extensively previously. I really don't feel like contributing an hour or two again to comprehensively cover this again.

If you can't find previous threads, post here again and I will see what I can find or redo.
 

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Water/methanol mix injection has its place as does E85. Both have advantages and disadvantages and those that knock either have used it for the wrong application or did not do it right or expected more than it could do.

Both are covered extensively previously. I really don't feel like contributing an hour or two again to comprehensively cover this again.

If you can't find previous threads, post here again and I will see what I can find or redo.
I agree, every type of fuel has advantages and disadvantages. It all comes down to personal preference and the type of use.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I'll do some searching, I'm pretty much set for my needs though....

I'm going to run 93 for now and do meth injection for a higher HP map next year. I'll do the meth injection over the winter.

For me it's a simple decision...

1. E85 raises consumption and would require new injectors
2. E85 has at the very least some inconsistency to it's mix

93 Sunoco comes out of the ground unmixed, so short of a bad batch you're not likely to run into a drastic octane change, and I will use pure meth and mix it myself, so I won't be concerned with that, and it's my second car so I always make sure to check all the fluids before heading out, will just add meth to the list next year....

I'm getting pretty old and not so into going rocket motor fast anymore, I'd just like a fun car that IF I feel like it I can turn up the boost. So burning e85 on my base map would be pointless for my every day power goals AND consumption. Plus I'm too lazy to switch fuels on any kind of regular basis.

Thanks for all the input guys. Hopefully my strep clears up so I can button it all up next weekend, So pissed I couldn't just do it this weekend.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Really? When I started the build and people were just starting to use E85 everyone just used the same walbro intank, or duals or one intank and one inline... That specific FP is news to me... sucks dropping out of the scene for so long so many developments happen that you miss...

Although it's also awesome. I was jazzed to hear that everyone's least favorite ECU company was coming out with a software/hardware update for the s300... and COP...
 

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The biggest disadvantages of E85 are:-

1) The corrosive nature.
2) The water absorption out of damp air.
3) The volume needed and consequential increase in fuel pump and injectors. If the injectors are to small a poor but workable fix is increased fuel pressure.
4) The varying formulation of E85 unless you can get a reliable supply of racing grade E85.

The advantages are:-

1) It is very cheap for it's octane rating.
2) It burns clean.
3) It's mostly biofuel.

The advantages of water/meth injection are:-

1) It is VERY cheap to run, especially if you use more water in the mix.
2) It effectivly suppresses detonation.
3) It keeps the engine squeeky clean inside.

Disadvantages are:-

1) The kits are expensive.
2) They take up space.
3) If they fail, the engine might detonate and be severely damaged in the blink of an eye.
4) If the water tank is not carefully located and mounted, it can siphon and cause hydraulic lock.
5) You need to keep it topped up.
6) You need to mix the blend.
 

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I prefer water meth. Not a complicated procedure to mix solution and greatly helps with detonation. Just carry extra mix in the trunk for very long trips.
 
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