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Classic Man
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how much of a difference say 11:1 to 9:1 timing difference.
doesnt work like that you are dropping many many many variables that all need to considered before that can be answered.
 

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bringing this thread back up from the dead to discuss something that others might be interested in.

Question - for all intensive purposes, wouldn't shaving down the block 1.83mm have the same effect as using rods that are 1.83mm longer?

I'm sure i'll be told that I should just get the custom length rods, however, they aren't necessary for my application. I'm running low boost, but my combination of components raises compression too high and has made tuning the car difficult. I want to reduce compression, but not all the way down to 7.5:1.

I don't think its necessary to spend another $250 for rods I don't really need. I'm also not concerned about damaging the block and the inability to swap back to stock or other pistons - z6 blocks are cheap and disposable as far as I'm concerned. I also don't want to machine the head, as it has already been milled and I don't want to take it down any further.

Any reason why I shouldn't just deck the block by 1.5mm or so?
 

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bringing this thread back up from the dead to discuss something that others might be interested in.

Question - for all intensive purposes, wouldn't shaving down the block 1.83mm have the same effect as using rods that are 1.83mm longer?

I'm sure i'll be told that I should just get the custom length rods, however, they aren't necessary for my application. I'm running low boost, but my combination of components raises compression too high and has made tuning the car difficult. I want to reduce compression, but not all the way down to 7.5:1.

I don't think its necessary to spend another $250 for rods I don't really need. I'm also not concerned about damaging the block and the inability to swap back to stock or other pistons - z6 blocks are cheap and disposable as far as I'm concerned. I also don't want to machine the head, as it has already been milled and I don't want to take it down any further.

Any reason why I shouldn't just deck the block by 1.5mm or so?
Yes you can do that but after that you should have a cam pulley in order to adjust the timing, if not you would run +X degrees or -X degrees of the original position on the cam.

Why not using a taller head gasket to drop the CR?? instead of putting vitaras and shaving the block?
 

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Mainly because I only trust OEM HG's :)

Is there any way to get a sense of how much the cam timing will be changed based on how much I shave the block?
 

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Mainly because I only trust OEM HG's :)

Is there any way to get a sense of how much the cam timing will be changed based on how much I shave the block?
Related link:

http://www.d-series.org/forums/engine-building/11167-head-milling-advance-retard-cam-timing.html

You TDC the cam and TDC the crank, bolt it together, how you set the belt it determines whether you advance or retard the cam. Basically it depends on which way you turn something to get the belt on. If you have an adjustable gear you can leave them both at TDC and use the gear to get the belt timed.

JD told me to retard the cam if you don't have an adjustable gear (which I don't).
 

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I've now taken off a total of 0.100" off my deck and head combined. Advanced my cam gear 5° and it put the ignition timing right at 16° BTDC with the dizzy set in the middle.

General rule of thumb is to advance camshaft 2° per mm of material removed. It certainly rang true on my setup.

Also, when you're tensioning your t-belt you should be turning your crank counterclockwise. Don't turn it the other way or the belt be properly tensioned. Thus, you always advance the cam timing when removing material off the head or block.
 

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Thanks for the help everyone. Unfortunately the z6 cam gear has 37 teeth, which makes the adjustment of one full tooth almost 10*. I'm thinking I would need less than half that, so it looks like I might need an adjustable cam gear. I'm thinking the advance would be around 4*.
 

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Another hypothetical question: Say I shaved the block/head down enough to create approx. 4* of timing advance. If i were to switch to a Y8 cam gear (the motor is a Z6) that would allow for an adjustment of +/- 4.75*, which would allow me to get cam timing near stock, or +0.75*?

Am I correct on that?
 

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Is not needed.

To be honest, even as a noob, I didnt ask questions. I got my ass on HMT (before Rick P's faggot ass), and searched my ass off. If I couldnt find it there, I googled it. If I could find the answer, I looked harder. Because guaranteed, some "noob" had asked the same stupid question that I wanted to ask, and a million people answered it.

And in the end, I turbo'd my first Honda, and with great success. And the shit that went wrong, I had enough common sense and mechanical ability to figure it out.

Noob or not, if you cant do that, or dont want to, you shouldnt be working on your car in the first place. Take it to a shop, and pay them to do it for you.

If you dont want to research, spend some money, do some trial and error, and blow some shit up. The information that is out there, is because someone else did this in the first place.

I cant believe, with how big of a trend the Vitara build is, people are still answering the stupid fucking questions, that these "noobs" are asking. The information is EVERYWHERE, in EVERY build, on EVERY forum. It cant be that hard to find.

But luckily for you, or whomever else, including myself, someone got tired of the retards, and finally just spoon fed everyone the answers, and compiled it all into one thread... Which, even if it gets stickied, someone will still start a new thread, asking questions about Vitara pistons and deck heights.

You mean a million people told them to search for it. Took me seven different links before finding this thread with any relevant information because everyone just says search a few times and a moderator locks the thread. Everyone loves to say just search it's so easy - but in doing so each time they do that it makes it a little more difficult.

Just tried to check out the FJ site but it is gone. Are custom length rods still being made? eBay has p2p0 rods that are apparently designed for zero piston to deck. I wonder how aggressive the cam can be at that height.
 

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so by bumping a 3 year old dead thread and quoting one of the best of the best members to ever join this site, claiming he is wrong about searching?

then asking info about something that can easily be searched...

you failed at failing,

you quoted one of the best pieces of advice on this site if you dont like it and cant follow it. then your car is slow and it will blow
 

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I've been looking now for quite some time to buy piston+rod kit, but there are so many options that I am loosing track which ones are genuine and which are chinese knock-offs..

i found kit on ebay, that's called -YCP 75.5mm D16 Vitara Pistons + NPR Rings & Custom Length Rods TEFLON ARP2000

any comments on the rods in the kit above? is it worth ordering? maybe there is a better place rather than ebay to order vitara pistons and h-beam rods?
 

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The vitara good to use? I have gut feeling not to use the cast internals. Afraid of having cast melting and having some molten metals up inside.

Whats best to use besides vitara that arent made of cast?
 

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Vitaras are used because of thick ringlands and super low compression. They're still cast but better than stock. The next step up is a forged piston >$500 per set. Decisions decisions
 

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gonna get forged, if im doing it might as well get er done the right way.

Ive seen what the cast will do if you dont have it correct, the forged are a little bit more forgiving.

Eagle Street good?
never used them before.

gonna be looking for suggestions this weekend at street car takeover
 
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