how much of a difference say 11:1 to 9:1 timing difference.
VITARA INFO Thread
VITARA INFO Thread-Add Your Knowledge
I thought it would be a great Idea to start a thread with all the Vitara Piston Info along with custom rod lengths vs standard length info so that you don't have to see 100 threads a week asking the same question. So if you have valuable Information to add go ahead and maybe we can get this stickied. I know all the info is out there it just needs to be put in 1 thread.
A 75mm Vitara Piston has a compression height of 28.3 and a dish volume of -15cc
The standard Length rod for a D16 is 137mm
The Custom Length FJ Rods for a D16 are 138.63mm(5.458 in)
(This puts the piston closer to the deck surface increasing compression ratio.)
All numbers were calculated using the Zeal calculator. Honda D-Series Compression Calculator by ZealAutowerks The Head gasket used for calculations was a Y8 2 layer (.025)
Approximate compression ratios with 75mm pistons (Compression increases roughly.07-.08 with 75.5mm pistons)
D16z6 with standard length Rods and Vitaras- 7.64 to 1
D16z6 with FJ custom length rods and vitaras- 8.54 to 1
D16y8 with standard length Rods and Vitaras- 7.84 to 1
D16y8 with FJ custom length rods and vitaras- 8.81 to 1
D16a6 with standard length Rods and Vitaras - 7.28 to 1
D16a6 with FJ custom length rods and vitaras- 8.09 to 1
With a z6 gasket( .037 ) compression numbers go down ~.15
With a A6 gasket( .048 )compression numbers go down ~.25-.28
Compared to the 2 layer Y8
So obviously if you are looking for the highest compression gasket you would go with the 2 layer Y8 gasket
The highest compression ratio can be made using a y8 head due to the difference in combustion chamber volume.
D16y8 head = 32.8 cc
D16z6 head = 34.6 cc
D16a6 head = 38.0 cc
THE GREAT ARROW DEBATE-
"Arrow towards the flywheel on a D-series is the current thinking. The reason being the pin is slightly offset and the Honda engine turns backwards, hence the reversed orientation." This Is True yet many have been ran the other way as well. JFK has his arrows pointed towards the flywheel and has made 600+hp. Others have made 400 with the arrow towards the timing belt.The main thing to remember is that you will get pistons slap both ways if you have a very large PTW clearance.
Actual Piston Sizes- These measurements have been taken by various members of the D-series community.
Ycp 75.5mm vitara's from FJ Distributors
Diameter
Piston 1. 2.9684"
Piston 2. 2.9684"
Piston 3. 2.9683"
Piston 4. 2.9682"
Piston pin diameter - all 4. .7470"
Piston pin offset
Intake - 1.1195"
Exhaust - 1.1380"
Intake relief width - 1.0490"
Intake relief depth - 0.1530"
Exhaust relief width - 0.9615"
Exhaust relief depth - 0.1685"
Measurements were taken with arrow towards flywheel.
PTW Clearances with Vitaras-
Many have heard .001 for every 100 hp so that is what I will stick with. This is a good rule of thumb and has worked in many builds. Normal Vitara builds are shooting for roughly 250-400HP so .0025" to .004"
Notching- There have been many different opinions on notching with the Different types of Rods. For Eagles it has been pretty much standard to notch the block and Girdle,I have heard of some people getting away without though. For the FJ Rods the same has been said. Fj States that no notching is required for the D15B though due to the shorter stroke.But it is needed with the d16s . My opinion is @ 8000 Rpm I want to make sure shit clears. So a standard notch job may be or may not be "needed" but It will definitely give you a peace of mind if you are close during assembly.
The Old One - Energy Dynamics : Articles -Great article on notching
FJ Distributors - for all your vitara/custom length rods
http://www.d-series.org/forums/forced-induction/131753-vitara-builds-dyno-vault-hall-fame.html - Some High HP Vitara Builds
THE NEW COATED VITARA PISTON- Measures 2.953
http://www.d-series.org/forums/forc...as-actual-75mm-bore-teflon-coated-skirts.html
http://www.d-series.org/forums/product-reviews/136038-p2p0-teflon-coated-vitaras-75-5-a.html
Please add info to this thread as you read it.:bigok:
Ring Gap
http://www.d-series.org/forums/forced-induction/133308-piston-ring-gap-quick-answer.html
Previous Vitara Piston Question threads:
http://www.d-series.org/forums/forced-induction/134339-d16y8-p2w-clearance-vitara.html
http://www.d-series.org/forums/forced-induction/131657-gauging-interest-new-vitara-piston.html
I thought it would be a great Idea to start a thread with all the Vitara Piston Info along with custom rod lengths vs standard length info so that you don't have to see 100 threads a week asking the same question. So if you have valuable Information to add go ahead and maybe we can get this stickied. I know all the info is out there it just needs to be put in 1 thread.
A 75mm Vitara Piston has a compression height of 28.3 and a dish volume of -15cc
The standard Length rod for a D16 is 137mm
The Custom Length FJ Rods for a D16 are 138.63mm(5.458 in)
(This puts the piston closer to the deck surface increasing compression ratio.)
All numbers were calculated using the Zeal calculator. Honda D-Series Compression Calculator by ZealAutowerks The Head gasket used for calculations was a Y8 2 layer (.025)
Approximate compression ratios with 75mm pistons (Compression increases roughly.07-.08 with 75.5mm pistons)
D16z6 with standard length Rods and Vitaras- 7.64 to 1
D16z6 with FJ custom length rods and vitaras- 8.54 to 1
D16y8 with standard length Rods and Vitaras- 7.84 to 1
D16y8 with FJ custom length rods and vitaras- 8.81 to 1
D16a6 with standard length Rods and Vitaras - 7.28 to 1
D16a6 with FJ custom length rods and vitaras- 8.09 to 1
With a z6 gasket( .037 ) compression numbers go down ~.15
With a A6 gasket( .048 )compression numbers go down ~.25-.28
Compared to the 2 layer Y8
So obviously if you are looking for the highest compression gasket you would go with the 2 layer Y8 gasket
The highest compression ratio can be made using a y8 head due to the difference in combustion chamber volume.
D16y8 head = 32.8 cc
D16z6 head = 34.6 cc
D16a6 head = 38.0 cc
THE GREAT ARROW DEBATE-
"Arrow towards the flywheel on a D-series is the current thinking. The reason being the pin is slightly offset and the Honda engine turns backwards, hence the reversed orientation." This Is True yet many have been ran the other way as well. JFK has his arrows pointed towards the flywheel and has made 600+hp. Others have made 400 with the arrow towards the timing belt.The main thing to remember is that you will get pistons slap both ways if you have a very large PTW clearance.
Actual Piston Sizes- These measurements have been taken by various members of the D-series community.
Ycp 75.5mm vitara's from FJ Distributors
Diameter
Piston 1. 2.9684"
Piston 2. 2.9684"
Piston 3. 2.9683"
Piston 4. 2.9682"
Piston pin diameter - all 4. .7470"
Piston pin offset
Intake - 1.1195"
Exhaust - 1.1380"
Intake relief width - 1.0490"
Intake relief depth - 0.1530"
Exhaust relief width - 0.9615"
Exhaust relief depth - 0.1685"
Measurements were taken with arrow towards flywheel.
PTW Clearances with Vitaras-
Many have heard .001 for every 100 hp so that is what I will stick with. This is a good rule of thumb and has worked in many builds. Normal Vitara builds are shooting for roughly 250-400HP so .0025" to .004"
Notching- There have been many different opinions on notching with the Different types of Rods. For Eagles it has been pretty much standard to notch the block and Girdle,I have heard of some people getting away without though. For the FJ Rods the same has been said. Fj States that no notching is required for the D15B though due to the shorter stroke.But it is needed with the d16s . My opinion is @ 8000 Rpm I want to make sure shit clears. So a standard notch job may be or may not be "needed" but It will definitely give you a peace of mind if you are close during assembly.
The Old One - Energy Dynamics : Articles -Great article on notching
FJ Distributors - for all your vitara/custom length rods
http://www.d-series.org/forums/forced-induction/131753-vitara-builds-dyno-vault-hall-fame.html - Some High HP Vitara Builds
THE NEW COATED VITARA PISTON- Measures 2.953
http://www.d-series.org/forums/forc...as-actual-75mm-bore-teflon-coated-skirts.html
http://www.d-series.org/forums/product-reviews/136038-p2p0-teflon-coated-vitaras-75-5-a.html
Please add info to this thread as you read it.:bigok:
Ring Gap
http://www.d-series.org/forums/forced-induction/133308-piston-ring-gap-quick-answer.html
Previous Vitara Piston Question threads:
http://www.d-series.org/forums/forced-induction/134339-d16y8-p2w-clearance-vitara.html
http://www.d-series.org/forums/forced-induction/131657-gauging-interest-new-vitara-piston.html
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doesnt work like that you are dropping many many many variables that all need to considered before that can be answered.how much of a difference say 11:1 to 9:1 timing difference.
bringing this thread back up from the dead to discuss something that others might be interested in.
Question - for all intensive purposes, wouldn't shaving down the block 1.83mm have the same effect as using rods that are 1.83mm longer?
I'm sure i'll be told that I should just get the custom length rods, however, they aren't necessary for my application. I'm running low boost, but my combination of components raises compression too high and has made tuning the car difficult. I want to reduce compression, but not all the way down to 7.5:1.
I don't think its necessary to spend another $250 for rods I don't really need. I'm also not concerned about damaging the block and the inability to swap back to stock or other pistons - z6 blocks are cheap and disposable as far as I'm concerned. I also don't want to machine the head, as it has already been milled and I don't want to take it down any further.
Any reason why I shouldn't just deck the block by 1.5mm or so?
Question - for all intensive purposes, wouldn't shaving down the block 1.83mm have the same effect as using rods that are 1.83mm longer?
I'm sure i'll be told that I should just get the custom length rods, however, they aren't necessary for my application. I'm running low boost, but my combination of components raises compression too high and has made tuning the car difficult. I want to reduce compression, but not all the way down to 7.5:1.
I don't think its necessary to spend another $250 for rods I don't really need. I'm also not concerned about damaging the block and the inability to swap back to stock or other pistons - z6 blocks are cheap and disposable as far as I'm concerned. I also don't want to machine the head, as it has already been milled and I don't want to take it down any further.
Any reason why I shouldn't just deck the block by 1.5mm or so?
Yes you can do that but after that you should have a cam pulley in order to adjust the timing, if not you would run +X degrees or -X degrees of the original position on the cam.bringing this thread back up from the dead to discuss something that others might be interested in.
Question - for all intensive purposes, wouldn't shaving down the block 1.83mm have the same effect as using rods that are 1.83mm longer?
I'm sure i'll be told that I should just get the custom length rods, however, they aren't necessary for my application. I'm running low boost, but my combination of components raises compression too high and has made tuning the car difficult. I want to reduce compression, but not all the way down to 7.5:1.
I don't think its necessary to spend another $250 for rods I don't really need. I'm also not concerned about damaging the block and the inability to swap back to stock or other pistons - z6 blocks are cheap and disposable as far as I'm concerned. I also don't want to machine the head, as it has already been milled and I don't want to take it down any further.
Any reason why I shouldn't just deck the block by 1.5mm or so?
Why not using a taller head gasket to drop the CR?? instead of putting vitaras and shaving the block?
Mainly because I only trust OEM HG's 
Is there any way to get a sense of how much the cam timing will be changed based on how much I shave the block?
Is there any way to get a sense of how much the cam timing will be changed based on how much I shave the block?
If you deck it that far won't you be into the water pump?
Related link:Mainly because I only trust OEM HG's
Is there any way to get a sense of how much the cam timing will be changed based on how much I shave the block?
http://www.d-series.org/forums/engine-building/11167-head-milling-advance-retard-cam-timing.html
You TDC the cam and TDC the crank, bolt it together, how you set the belt it determines whether you advance or retard the cam. Basically it depends on which way you turn something to get the belt on. If you have an adjustable gear you can leave them both at TDC and use the gear to get the belt timed.
JD told me to retard the cam if you don't have an adjustable gear (which I don't).
Not on a d16 block. There is over 100 thou Before even getting close. He only wants like 70 thou off
I've now taken off a total of 0.100" off my deck and head combined. Advanced my cam gear 5° and it put the ignition timing right at 16° BTDC with the dizzy set in the middle.
General rule of thumb is to advance camshaft 2° per mm of material removed. It certainly rang true on my setup.
Also, when you're tensioning your t-belt you should be turning your crank counterclockwise. Don't turn it the other way or the belt be properly tensioned. Thus, you always advance the cam timing when removing material off the head or block.
General rule of thumb is to advance camshaft 2° per mm of material removed. It certainly rang true on my setup.
Also, when you're tensioning your t-belt you should be turning your crank counterclockwise. Don't turn it the other way or the belt be properly tensioned. Thus, you always advance the cam timing when removing material off the head or block.
Thanks for the help everyone. Unfortunately the z6 cam gear has 37 teeth, which makes the adjustment of one full tooth almost 10*. I'm thinking I would need less than half that, so it looks like I might need an adjustable cam gear. I'm thinking the advance would be around 4*.
Another hypothetical question: Say I shaved the block/head down enough to create approx. 4* of timing advance. If i were to switch to a Y8 cam gear (the motor is a Z6) that would allow for an adjustment of +/- 4.75*, which would allow me to get cam timing near stock, or +0.75*?
Am I correct on that?
Am I correct on that?
Is not needed.
To be honest, even as a noob, I didnt ask questions. I got my ass on HMT (before Rick P's ****** ass), and searched my ass off. If I couldnt find it there, I googled it. If I could find the answer, I looked harder. Because guaranteed, some "noob" had asked the same stupid question that I wanted to ask, and a million people answered it.
And in the end, I turbo'd my first Honda, and with great success. And the shit that went wrong, I had enough common sense and mechanical ability to figure it out.
Noob or not, if you cant do that, or dont want to, you shouldnt be working on your car in the first place. Take it to a shop, and pay them to do it for you.
If you dont want to research, spend some money, do some trial and error, and blow some shit up. The information that is out there, is because someone else did this in the first place.
I cant believe, with how big of a trend the Vitara build is, people are still answering the stupid fucking questions, that these "noobs" are asking. The information is EVERYWHERE, in EVERY build, on EVERY forum. It cant be that hard to find.
But luckily for you, or whomever else, including myself, someone got tired of the retards, and finally just spoon fed everyone the answers, and compiled it all into one thread... Which, even if it gets stickied, someone will still start a new thread, asking questions about Vitara pistons and deck heights.
You mean a million people told them to search for it. Took me seven different links before finding this thread with any relevant information because everyone just says search a few times and a moderator locks the thread. Everyone loves to say just search it's so easy - but in doing so each time they do that it makes it a little more difficult.
Just tried to check out the FJ site but it is gone. Are custom length rods still being made? eBay has p2p0 rods that are apparently designed for zero piston to deck. I wonder how aggressive the cam can be at that height.
so by bumping a 3 year old dead thread and quoting one of the best of the best members to ever join this site, claiming he is wrong about searching?
then asking info about something that can easily be searched...
you failed at failing,
you quoted one of the best pieces of advice on this site if you dont like it and cant follow it. then your car is slow and it will blow
then asking info about something that can easily be searched...
you failed at failing,
you quoted one of the best pieces of advice on this site if you dont like it and cant follow it. then your car is slow and it will blow
I've been looking now for quite some time to buy piston+rod kit, but there are so many options that I am loosing track which ones are genuine and which are chinese knock-offs..
i found kit on ebay, that's called -YCP 75.5mm D16 Vitara Pistons + NPR Rings & Custom Length Rods TEFLON ARP2000
any comments on the rods in the kit above? is it worth ordering? maybe there is a better place rather than ebay to order vitara pistons and h-beam rods?
i found kit on ebay, that's called -YCP 75.5mm D16 Vitara Pistons + NPR Rings & Custom Length Rods TEFLON ARP2000
any comments on the rods in the kit above? is it worth ordering? maybe there is a better place rather than ebay to order vitara pistons and h-beam rods?
Skip the vitaras and buy a quality forged piston
The vitara good to use? I have gut feeling not to use the cast internals. Afraid of having cast melting and having some molten metals up inside.
Whats best to use besides vitara that arent made of cast?
Whats best to use besides vitara that arent made of cast?
Vitaras are used because of thick ringlands and super low compression. They're still cast but better than stock. The next step up is a forged piston >$500 per set. Decisions decisions
gonna get forged, if im doing it might as well get er done the right way.
Ive seen what the cast will do if you dont have it correct, the forged are a little bit more forgiving.
Eagle Street good?
never used them before.
gonna be looking for suggestions this weekend at street car takeover
Ive seen what the cast will do if you dont have it correct, the forged are a little bit more forgiving.
Eagle Street good?
never used them before.
gonna be looking for suggestions this weekend at street car takeover
I am just finishing up my Vitara and speed factories no notch rods build in a d16y8.
61 - 80 of 80 Posts
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