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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hi!!

I thinking about to put now a high comp pistons,arp rods and rings, ferrea springs and others little mods.

Little tune and new time (more money) put a T25 at no more than 10psi.

Is possible??

I can break my d16?

I have a DOHC ZC (D16A9).

Because vitara ycp are cheaper than high comp pistons, but now i don't have all the money for non chinese turbo T3 kit. And run on 8.5:1 turbo pistons without turbo (na) is sick, no more than 70-90hp?

Thanks!!
 

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90 Civic Si
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I am running 11.1 and 10psi on my street car. Proper tuning and attention when driving will keep the motor alive for a long time. I also think it is the reason why I get 37mpg out of it with the turbo on it and 31mpg in town. Plus it makes the car more tractable off boost.
 

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racist-bigot-sexist-homophob
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Since you have a DOHC then you c/r w/ vitaras will be more like 6.X:1.
 

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not to be a smart ass, but if you think 300 is expensive for pistons, you might wanna look elsewhere, and not touch your motor..... you have to pick, you want to go all motor/ or turbo... yeah you "could" get away with having both, but how good is the tuner thats going to be tuning it, and would he want to touch it??? you have to decide what you wanna do, make a plan, and go from there...
 

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()*#$(*$
93 Legend L Coupe.
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Here's what I think you should do. This is just my opinion, but, I've been giving something very similar a lot of through lately.

There are a few things working against your goal. Firstly, the DOHC D has HUGE chambers. This is hard to get good compression without going to extremes. However, this is also good because the valves are less shrouded than on other D-series engines.

If you are not looking to spend the money on sleeving your block, here is what I would strongly recomend for a build, as this is more or less what I will be doing for my CRX later next year:

-FJT Rods
-Endyn Rollwerwave -4.5cc FI pistons
-Zero-deck the block to level the pistons with the deck (~.5mm)
-Whack the head 2mm, then machine the quench pads to the same height in all chambers, and make sure the side of the chambers match the 75.5mm bore
-Back-cut Supertech nitrided valves, stock size and a good three angle valve job
-Valve springs and maybe Ti retainers
-Clean up the port bowls and smooth out the casting marks, but remove as LITTLE material as possible (the ports are already too hard)
-Cermic coat the faces of the valves, the chamber, the exhaust ports and the backs an stems of the exhaust valves
-Bisimoto, Exospeed, or Crespo cams (I'd probably hit up Bisimoto as he should be able specify the cams with lobe centers that will compensate for the head mill to retain maximum adjustability with your cam gears)
-JG cam gears for the ZC or modded B-series gears of your choice
-ZCspeed intake manifold adapter and a ported Blox or Skunk2 IM
-STOCK sized throttle body
-ACL bearings
-Cometic MLS gasket sized to provide .040" clearance between the head and pistons
-92+ crank pulley with the power steering part machined off (unless you have PS)
-92+ alternator
-Manifold with wastegate priority
-GT2871R or GT28RS, external wastegate, 3" downpipe, cate, and exhaust
-RDX injectors (Will require a different fuel rail and some machine work to the manifold)
-Chipped ECU
-Wideband and EGT sensor
-Intercooler of your choice and piping

And there you go. This will give you ~10.5:1 SCR (Static Compression Ratio), a little lower than you want, but still VERY good for driving around without a turbo, and will spool the larger GT2871R turbo much faster than most other DOHCs can do. This setup should produce very good torque, very fast response, and be retardedly fast. The only thing that will limit the top side of power will be the stock sleeves and needing larger injectors. If you think you want to make that much power, get some larger injectors of your choice and a pump. The RDX injectors are a most excellent primary. You can get the Edelbrock manifold and run them as secondaries, with other injectors, but this requires an engine management solution that can handle two sets of injectors and more complication running fuel lines. So, I would simply stick with larger primaries in the stock location.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thanks!! For all comments

I think i will go maybe on 10.5-11 SRP pistons, with stock 75mm,because legal problems in my country we have a revision every year to verify that the car not contamine,that suspensions work well and other things, they verify that the car is stock, and homologate costs up to 1000USD more.

Now i will build all internals, no homologate and then going turbo (will costs more than 2000USD plus because turbo kit+homologate).

Another alternative to endyn pistons?? I did not find them.

Yeah DOHC have a bigger cams than other shoc, more than de y8 sohc vtec.

Thanks!!
 

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93 Legend L Coupe.
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The DOHC chamber specs out to ~43.8cc. That is huge!

Alecuba-
It is recomended that you bore the cylinders out, especially with forged pistons as the metal they are made of expands more than the cast, stock pistons. 75.5mm is a stock piston option. That is the furthest specification that Honda recomends for rebuilds. I would seriously recomend the mid dome Rollerwave pistons ( http://www.theoldone.com/components/pistons/index.html ) with the modifications to the block and head.

Are they going to check to see if your head and block are milled? Whee are you from? Some countries have terrible laws! LOL! The funny thing is that if you did this, it would most likely run cleaner (especially if you can run a chipped ECU to tune it for the emmisions testing!) than it would normally.

Best of luck with your build, whatever you decide!
 

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I took .060 off the block, close to .080 off the head. I have the pistons sitting out of the hole .030, I think. I milled all the quench pads to the same depth and then opened up the corners of the chamber because the head has a 75mm bore and the 75.5 overbore allows the piston to hit the heads. Make sure you do that if you bring the pistons out of the hole.

I like the Rollerwaves. I however used the 6.5cc forced induction pistons instead. I probably should have used a flat top and I wouldn't have had to mill the head as much. Oh well live and learn. If I remember right my chambers are 34-36cc. But I slept once since then.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Thanks for all explanations, i'm learning a lot of things.

I think that i don't need to modify my block, in last change i look the sleeves and they are like new, i think that i only need a good pistons and concordant rings for 75mm stock sleeves, at the monet because my country laws are very prohibitive and they can fine me, i only want to run no more than 300hp with a solid engine and rectify the sleeves means that the block thickness will be smaller.

With only 1.6 i can take 300hp not 500 not 400 but 300 it can be assumed with solid engine.

What do you think?

The car inspectors of every year (ITV), test your emissions and look in engine looking for any modifications that not are in the list of accepted modifications (for example a racing exhaust with down pipe,costs up to 600USD plus to homologate)

I found an SRP pistons with good price, 438USD plus 80usd shipping.

And YCP Na pistons about 247usd plus 50usd shipping.

Thanks!!
 

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93 Legend L Coupe.
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I would HIGHLY recomend overboring to 75.5mm. Ring seal is the most important part of keeping a reliable engine, as far as things in the bottom end are concerned! Not overboring and going to attempt 300HP is asking to have leaking! The sleeves are strong enough to do this, too. They will hold 300HP if your tuner knows what he's doing.

I can't comment on the SRP pistons, so I hope someone else decides to weigh in with them. In my opinion though, there are other options for pistons that might not be as expensive as a set of rollerwaves that should perform well. What are the specification of the SRP pistons you have found? (WE need to know the compression height, the dome of the volume or dish, and the diameter.)

The YCP "zc" dome pistons are NOT a good choice. They are exactly what you have in your engine now. They are not a very good design. In fact, I think those are about the worst designed Honda piston ever!
 

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How are you going to hide a turbo and get away with it when it comes to inspection time?

I agree with Acid. You need to overbore the motor to make sure you have straight and true cylinder bores. Ring seal is very important, plus having the proper cylinder wall clearance will determine how successful the engine is.
 

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How are you going to hide a turbo and get away with it when it comes to inspection time?

I agree with Acid. You need to overbore the motor to make sure you have straight and true cylinder bores. Ring seal is very important, plus having the proper cylinder wall clearance will determine how successful the engine is.
he might beable to get away with it if he does like danz did and put the heat shield over it.
 

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You need to decide what you want to do and then go from there. IMO I would not boost an engine with 11.5:1. I'm not saying it can't be done or it won't work however.

The YCP "zc" dome pistons are NOT a good choice. They are exactly what you have in your engine now. They are not a very good design. In fact, I think those are about the worst designed Honda piston ever!
Could you explain exactly how they are "the worst designed honda piston ever"?

If they are made using the same materials and process as regular YCP vitaras then I really don't see how they would be a bad choice. Price seems a little steep though for cast pistons.
 

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You need to decide what you want to do and then go from there. IMO I would not boost an engine with 11.5:1. I'm not saying it can't be done or it won't work however.



Could you explain exactly how they are "the worst designed honda piston ever"?

If they are made using the same materials and process as regular YCP vitaras then I really don't see how they would be a bad choice. Price seems a little steep though for cast pistons.
Probibally because of the dome and no quench whatsoever.
 

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Cervan hit it perfectly. The high dome interferes with combuston efficiency by effectivly splitting the combustion chamber into two parts, especially on the smaller chambered heads like the Y8. This is just the opposite of what you want in an ideal situtation where the air/fuel mix is concentrated towards the exhaust side of the chamber, with clear access to the spark plug to cleanly and quickly propogate the flame kernel as it develops from the spark plug.

Look at what Honda did with the GX pistons when they built factory 12.5:1SCR engines. They raised the compression height to 29.5mm and the dome was lowered to 2.5mm in height and down to the mid 4cc area (at least for the PDN). (Commonly accepted figures for the dome CC of the PDN are between 4.5 and 4.63.) Joseph Davis proved that these pistons can yeild most excellent results on regular gas, as he is running a 12.5:1 SCR engine on 87 octane. The gains were less than impressive when he switched to higher octane. This proves that his engine developed very good combustion dynamics that were much better than those who use P29s/PM7s in thier engines. In that respect, the DOHC engines and pistons are like old school hemis: they require LOTS of ignition timing and will detonate like crazy as they are highly octane dependant if the timing is not controled VERY VERY tightly. The metallurgy of the pistons has nothing to do with a bad design. The YCP pistons are actually VERY well made, it's just that they are copying a crappy design. If YCP coppied the PDN piston, or heaven forbid, slightly altered it so that it had closer to 30mm compresion height, and slightly lowered the dome a weeble more to compensate, people would have less issues with ping and blowing headgaskets if they get a tank of bad gas.

Seriously: study the development of chevy engines from the Hemi into the the later model LS engines. Look at the differences: smaller, more compact (efficient) chambers, pistons that have high compression heights and wide quench pads that mirror those on the head, and built in swirl in the chambers. It all makes a differnce as these types of engines can put out 6-700hp on 91 octane! The same processes can be applied to our Honda engines. Learn from people who spend more per year developing engines that your entire neighborhood is worth! =)
 

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Cervan hit it perfectly. The high dome interferes with combuston efficiency by effectivly splitting the combustion chamber into two parts, especially on the smaller chambered heads like the Y8. This is just the opposite of what you want in an ideal situtation where the air/fuel mix is concentrated towards the exhaust side of the chamber, with clear access to the spark plug to cleanly and quickly propogate the flame kernel as it develops from the spark plug.

Look at what Honda did with the GX pistons when they built factory 12.5:1SCR engines. They raised the compression height to 29.5mm and the dome was lowered to 2.5mm in height and down to the mid 4cc area (at least for the PDN). (Commonly accepted figures for the dome CC of the PDN are between 4.5 and 4.63.) Joseph Davis proved that these pistons can yeild most excellent results on regular gas, as he is running a 12.5:1 SCR engine on 87 octane. The gains were less than impressive when he switched to higher octane. This proves that his engine developed very good combustion dynamics that were much better than those who use P29s/PM7s in thier engines. In that respect, the DOHC engines and pistons are like old school hemis: they require LOTS of ignition timing and will detonate like crazy as they are highly octane dependant if the timing is not controled VERY VERY tightly. The metallurgy of the pistons has nothing to do with a bad design. The YCP pistons are actually VERY well made, it's just that they are copying a crappy design. If YCP coppied the PDN piston, or heaven forbid, slightly altered it so that it had closer to 30mm compresion height, and slightly lowered the dome a weeble more to compensate, people would have less issues with ping and blowing headgaskets if they get a tank of bad gas.

Seriously: study the development of chevy engines from the Hemi into the the later model LS engines. Look at the differences: smaller, more compact (efficient) chambers, pistons that have high compression heights and wide quench pads that mirror those on the head, and built in swirl in the chambers. It all makes a differnce as these types of engines can put out 6-700hp on 91 octane! The same processes can be applied to our Honda engines. Learn from people who spend more per year developing engines that your entire neighborhood is worth! =)
I agree, the p29 has to be the absolute worst piston designed for the d16. And i belive actually that the dome is so high and there is so much clearance between the head and the quench pads that it increases the chance for detonation twice fold.
 

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racist-bigot-sexist-homophob
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Ok, I see what you are saying but what does a Y8 head have to do with his DOHC ZC?
 
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