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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello, this is the first time posting here!

I am in the process of tuning my D17A1, but I am having problems getting a good spark table, and not too sure about the required fuel because I am running quite rich on idle. I was wondering if anybody here is familiar tuning D17's that could give me some advice. I am getting it professionally tuned when I have the money, but I want to learn the basics to at least get the car running. The community I am in knows quite a bit about tuning, but when it comes to this engine I have been on my own as nobody has used the hardware on it before.

My ECU is the speeduino, I am tuning with tunerstudio so I can post my tune and some logs if need be. I am not sure if this would be a huge difference as I know most people would use KTuner, or whatever the AEM uses. I have watched a couple people tuning hondas with a K-Pro and the process looks a different compared to tunerstudio, so I don't know how difficult this would be for someone who specifically uses KTuner. Anyway, any help would be highly appreciated!
 

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Are you using Tuner Pro RT to tune this, or the free version(non RT) ?

Timing will change how rich it shows up on teh gauges. Start retarding the timing ever so slightly, and see if it effects the AFR's

It could be showing up as rich simply becuase its not actually burning it all.


Make sure your dwell times for the igniton coils are set properly. Start with the K20 coil information, but add about 5% dwell time.

Other than that, find an XMD (whatever tunerpro uses) for the speeduino for a d16y8 or d16z6. you will want to use similar idle timing and fueling. The fueling will want a little extra with the bigger stroke of the D17
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I am not using Tuner Pro, I am using TunerStudio MS you can check that out here, I'm not sure about the differences though, but I'd imagine it's the same principles. Just to point out, I am using a narrowband O2 sensor as I am waiting on a LSU 4.9, and a lambda controller. So I don't exactly know how rich it would be considering how inaccurate those are, but it's definitely somewhere on the rich side. I will go ahead and look into that dwell timing, and I will try to find a good basemap for those engines. Although, I am finding that lot's of the basemaps are raw binary files that I can't really de-compile in to TunerStudio or read it, so that might take some time. Thanks for the advice!
 

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If you can find some of those raw files though, you can usually use Crome 1.6 or newer to read them, and if it spits out raw timing information, you may be able to figure out a table of sorts
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
If you can find some of those raw files though, you can usually use Crome 1.6 or newer to read them, and if it spits out raw timing information, you may be able to figure out a table of sorts
Interesting, I'll take a look.
 

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I am not using Tuner Pro, I am using TunerStudio MS you can check that out here, I'm not sure about the differences though, but I'd imagine it's the same principles. Just to point out, I am using a narrowband O2 sensor as I am waiting on a LSU 4.9, and a lambda controller. So I don't exactly know how rich it would be considering how inaccurate those are, but it's definitely somewhere on the rich side. I will go ahead and look into that dwell timing, and I will try to find a good basemap for those engines. Although, I am finding that lot's of the basemaps are raw binary files that I can't really de-compile in to TunerStudio or read it, so that might take some time. Thanks for the advice!
Wait for your wideband, it will make tuning AFR much more straightforward.

Narrowband sensors are honestly only good for minute changes to fuel trim based on a properly tuned map, which was usually determined originally via a wideband.

Having a basemap for your engine or a similar engine will make life easier and give you a place to start from, but going from scratch isn't impossible. You'll just have to be aware that if you manage to get the engine running decent on the main fuel and ignition tables, your engine will most likely be warm at that point. You'll need to make use of the fuel and ignition modifier tables that correct against the main fuel/ignition table based on coolant and IAT sensor values, for times when engine is cold.

Like mattliston said, if you have the ability to hard code dwell vs RPM in a table or setting option somewhere, hopefully you do, you'll need to add this. You should be able to find this info in ktuner forums to get you close. Dwell will be in milliseconds scaled against RPM. This is what will allow you to properly use and interpret your ignition tables in "degrees of advance/retard relative to TDC", because knowing the dwell period of your coils is a requirement for being able to confidently specify a position in degrees where a full spark discharge event should occur. As long as you know correct dwell periods, you can confidently say that ECU will need to start to turn the coil on at x degrees, and off at x degrees, which will be relative to RPM, to get full coil saturation and full coil discharge happening at the desired table angle.

You said you're using speeduino and tunerstudio, are things like IAT, CTS, TPS, MAP, cam, crank, etc. already scaled/configured correctly for Honda? Or did you have to configure these completely manually? Have you verified the sensor inputs scale correctly based on service manual information? You want to make sure ALL your inputs are 100% configured and scaled correctly, and input is what you expect BEFORE tuning anything. You can't tune reliably if any of these are a-miss.
 

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speeduino has a pretty large following for the D/B series guys, and they are big in Miata's

Its a great alternative to hondata for 90% of the users
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Wait for your wideband, it will make tuning AFR much more straightforward.

Narrowband sensors are honestly only good for minute changes to fuel trim based on a properly tuned map, which was usually determined originally via a wideband.

Having a basemap for your engine or a similar engine will make life easier and give you a place to start from, but going from scratch isn't impossible. You'll just have to be aware that if you manage to get the engine running decent on the main fuel and ignition tables, your engine will most likely be warm at that point. You'll need to make use of the fuel and ignition modifier tables that correct against the main fuel/ignition table based on coolant and IAT sensor values, for times when engine is cold.

Like mattliston said, if you have the ability to hard code dwell vs RPM in a table or setting option somewhere, hopefully you do, you'll need to add this. You should be able to find this info in ktuner forums to get you close. Dwell will be in milliseconds scaled against RPM. This is what will allow you to properly use and interpret your ignition tables in "degrees of advance/retard relative to TDC", because knowing the dwell period of your coils is a requirement for being able to confidently specify a position in degrees where a full spark discharge event should occur. As long as you know correct dwell periods, you can confidently say that ECU will need to start to turn the coil on at x degrees, and off at x degrees, which will be relative to RPM, to get full coil saturation and full coil discharge happening at the desired table angle.

You said you're using speeduino and tunerstudio, are things like IAT, CTS, TPS, MAP, cam, crank, etc. already scaled/configured correctly for Honda? Or did you have to configure these completely manually? Have you verified the sensor inputs scale correctly based on service manual information? You want to make sure ALL your inputs are 100% configured and scaled correctly, and input is what you expect BEFORE tuning anything. You can't tune reliably if any of these are a-miss.
I have IAT, CTS, TPS, and MAP configured properly . I am only using crank position as speeduino doesn't support the 4+1 cam trigger pattern, so I can only do paired ignition for now. The only things that couple be slightly inaccurate is the IAT and the CTS as I had to test them by heating them up and cooling them down and checking the resistance on a multimeter, but as far as I know they are acrurate with maybe a 1 degree margin of error. But all sounds good, just waiting for that WB!
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
if possible run the oem ecu with a scan tool to determine ign advance and make a crude table from that.
did you follow any guide for trigger angles and such ?
Yeah actually! I am waiting for a CAN OBD2 scanner in the mail so when I get that, I will try it out.
 

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I have IAT, CTS, TPS, and MAP configured properly . I am only using crank position as speeduino doesn't support the 4+1 cam trigger pattern, so I can only do paired ignition for now. The only things that couple be slightly inaccurate is the IAT and the CTS as I had to test them by heating them up and cooling them down and checking the resistance on a multimeter, but as far as I know they are acrurate with maybe a 1 degree margin of error. But all sounds good, just waiting for that WB!
That's exactly how I would do it... different water temps and a thermometer in hand, then interpolate the range :) you'll be fine with that, sound like you've done this before....
 

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if you have the tech manual for your car, honda has the resistance and value tables for the MAP, TPS, coolant, and the oil pressure sender.

oh that reminds me, you have live oil pressure with your ecu setup! honda for some reason only used it as an idiot light in the dash for 8-10 psi
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
That's exactly how I would do it... different water temps and a thermometer in hand, then interpolate the range :) you'll be fine with that, sound like you've done this before....
Awesome just thought I would reiterate what I was doing to make sure I was going in the right direction.

if you have the tech manual for your car, honda has the resistance and value tables for the MAP, TPS, coolant, and the oil pressure sender.

oh that reminds me, you have live oil pressure with your ecu setup! honda for some reason only used it as an idiot light in the dash for 8-10 psi
Oh interesting never thought about that, but it's a good idea considering I was going to go past the stock limiter and I was told to watch your oil pressure in super high RPM, but that's for when I get the car actually tuned. I'll throw some more updates on my progress when I get my wideband and a mock spark table.
 

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oil pump should be cleaned up and ported before going above 7500 rpms or so.

claened up, as in some amterial shaved to make smooth curves, some material ADDED via Devcron or similar, to fill in a certain corner of a pathway.

Or you can buy pre-modified pumps online from some palces. Changes over the years.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Interesting. Well that will be my next project then, the closest I have been to actually working on my engine is changing the head gasket and timing belt so I'm still pretty new to this. What type of tools would I need to do the porting? I would think something alone the lines of using a diamond tipped dremel and some steel wool to get the super smooth surface, but I'm not really too sure.
 

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Id say look up DIY head porting on youtube, you can get specific part numbers and recommendations.

Same tools cna be used to clean up the oil pump.

May or may not be cheaper to simply buy a prepared oil pump though.

Keep in mind, if you are only going upwards of 7500 or 8k rpms, you likely are fine with JSUT cleaning up the pump a bit, else leaving it alone.

While plenty of people have done 8k-8500 rpms with no mods, there isnt much for long term "reviews" of such builds.
 

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Hey stars could i get some help with my d17 im running speeduino and cant get it to start it start to crackle and pop then the engine just stops like the timing is off. Been trying to figure out the correct triggle angle
 

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google "d17 speeduino"

Check the first result.

Then figure out base timing and go from there. crackling and popping then dieing says you are right there and moments away.
 
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