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7th Gen Sleeper DD
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Ok. So I've decided to repost my turbo D17A2 build.

I want to emphasize three things:


My build. My tune. My work.

That being said:

Parts List:

1 ) 310cc RC Injectors
2 ) Ingalls "Stiffy" Engine Dampner
3 ) Hyper Grounding Kit
4 ) Hyper Volts Step-up transformer and voltage regulator
5 ) 2 Farads of Capacitance
6 ) AEM Power Steering Oversize Pulley
7 ) F1 Racing Stage 2 Clutch & Chromoly 8 lb Lightweight Flywheel (up from 7.5 lbs when I changed over from that P.O.S. XTD clutch and flywheel from ebay)
8 ) Garrett T25 Dual Ball Bearing Turbo
9 ) Front Mount Intercooler
10 ) Front and Rear Strut Tower Bars
11 ) Eibach Pro-Kit Lowering Springs (I've dropped 3 cars using springs in my life and all were driven daily. Eibach's are by FAR the best I've ever encountered)
12 ) Megan Racing BoV
13 ) Yellow Top Battery
14 ) Performance Tires (it changes every year...)
15 ) Every engine wire has been loamed and sealed with high temp electrical tape (I decided to duplicate what Mercedees and BMW do for their wiring for reliability)
16 ) AEM F/IC-6
17 ) No "Boomthief" harness. I soldered all connections using 63/37 solder to a mirror finish


In The Works:
1 ) Compressed air intercooler blowdown kit (my personal design) = $50
2 ) LSD... I've been dreading this... = $1000
2 ) Rods, Springs, Retainers, Rockers, Pistons, Rings = $2000
3 ) I'll be raising both boost and compression. The goal is 15 psig with 11.0.1 Compression (11-1, if I didn't get the notation right....)


End build should be 350+hp and 320ish Torque at the wheels
 

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ej8
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6,365 Posts
Looks nice. i now those engine bays are tight as hell. glad your still able to keep AC.
Also a few things.
isnt that 7lb flywheel a little to light?
and what is controlling the 310cc i didnt see any fuel management but maybe i missed it.
 

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ej8
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yea you answered everything but i got some more questions if you dont mind.
There about the AEM F/IC-6 Piggyback.

From what i been reading is it seems like a afc ONLY in the sense that it cuts the injector down and you tune using % of - to +. (more + equal more fuel/richer)
The aem has an injector driver tho so what it does is adds or subtract pulse with. keeping timing of the stock map. But it also seems to controll timing.
I understand how that works on your d17 since its a point system but do you know how it would work on a d16 where the fuel and ign map are together?

How hard was it to get the aem up and running and ready for tuning?
Also you want to donate your 310 injectors when you rebuild your 450 :D
 

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88' honda civic
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467 Posts
Does that ground wire rub the P.S. pulley?? You said $1500 for the turbo portion, is that all new parts or the homeboy hook up? Otherwise nice setup.
 

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ej8
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yea pretty much what i thought and read. So as far as a piggyback go would you say its good? and how is the ease of tuning it? I saw that it uses psia so the chart is a lil weird to me but i believe all i have to do is -14.7 to get something more workable for me. as in vac and boost.
Ive only really messed with crome but only on na setups. planed to use it on my setup but since im obd2 now i was looking for other options, as i will have emission ever year.
 

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ej8
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Xile6... about the 450s



"No kitty, those are MY 450s!!!!" XD
Haha well you can give me your 310 whne your done with them :D
I still gotta finish my setup. But atlest by next month the hotside will be done then I'm on to intercooler piping and fuel managment.


But the aem fic seems good . I understand obd2 it can be very picky. But seems like all you really have to do is clamp the map senor. Add fuel base on map load/rpm, subtract ign, then lie to the 02 and say yea everything good don't. Fix anything.

Am I pretty close to how everything works?

Sorry if I'm hijacking your theard just wanted to know alil more about the fic and ur someone that has one and its running great from what u said.
 

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88' honda civic
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467 Posts
BAH! you noticed that one, eh Pyro? I've since zipped it to the pipe there... I'll get you guys a more updated pic. It just has 4 more zip ties on the motor, is all.

I was wondering if anyone noticed that... it was bugging me.


"... does that answer your question?"
Why yes it does, I noticed cause my throttle cable did the same to my timing belt/ cam gear.

$1500 for the setup. Some was second hand, like the turbo, but not a homeboy setup. Shit man, I'm WHITE!!! XD
LOL, me too but ya never know.
 

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1999 Civic hatch
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Looks like it in the pic.. Hope it doesnt get caught in it and ruin it.


Just take all of em off and keep a few, you dont need that much clutter in your bay.


/Constructive criticism.
 

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My civic
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AFC (from the 2 I have installed), only changes the MAP sensor input voltage. The ECU will eventually compensate (within at LEAST one drive cycle) for the change in fuel. It accomplishes this by changing LTFTs (Long Term Fuel Trim).
This does not make sense. Fooling your map sensor voltage works by forcing your MAP to think your at 0.3 psi... basically WOT. MAP does NOT control LTFT, readings from, on your car being OBD2, come from both the primary and secondary O2's. The amount of oxygen being "sensed" directly correlates to stft and ltft. MAP simply tells the car the amount of air entering the engine so that it has an idea of how much fuel to add.. while the O2's fine tune said mixture. Or maybe im misunderstanding what was asked/said?

Also standard o2's are not "voltage sensing" nor "current sensing". There are precious metal in them that react producing a voltage, which the ECU then translates into a sort of "fuel control". As far as Wide bands are concerned. They do use amperage/current as a signal... without whipping out my text, i cannot recall the exact way it achieves this.
 

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7th Gen Sleeper DD
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Discussion Starter #15
This does not make sense. Fooling your map sensor voltage works by forcing your MAP to think your at 0.3 psi... basically WOT. MAP does NOT control LTFT, readings from, on your car being OBD2, come from both the primary and secondary O2's. The amount of oxygen being "sensed" directly correlates to stft and ltft. MAP simply tells the car the amount of air entering the engine so that it has an idea of how much fuel to add.. while the O2's fine tune said mixture. Or maybe im misunderstanding what was asked/said?

Also standard o2's are not "voltage sensing" nor "current sensing". There are precious metal in them that react producing a voltage, which the ECU then translates into a sort of "fuel control". As far as Wide bands are concerned. They do use amperage/current as a signal... without whipping out my text, i cannot recall the exact way it achieves this.
I will respond to this post, however…

I agree with you. Changing MAP sensor voltage does not give us the desired effect for boosting. I was answering someone's question about fuel control. I think you might have taken my post out of context...

I would like to clear things up a bit about the MAP sensor thing... The MAP sensor does not directly alter LTFTs. The ECU is looking for a set number of varying inputs from sensors throughout the engine. If one of these inputs is out of specification (spec for short), then the ECU will change another set of system parameters it can control in real time. This is an attempt to bring the signal in question, back into spec. If the ECU cannot make the needed changes, then it does one of the following: stores a temporary code in it’s RAM, along with the relevant measured engine sensory inputs’ values (Freeze Frame Data), or it goes right into a locked code condition. If that occurs, then the ECU turns on the CEL. CEL = that annoying amber light on the dash that tells us we’ve been messing with something we shouldn’t have… More commonly known as “Check Engine Light”.

It is also important to note, that nearly everything the ECU does, is done with respect to time.

About the O2 sensor thing... In this case, the secondary O2 sensor is for the purpose of detecting catalytic converter failure. It’s input is used as a “go” or ”no go” test. It has little, if any affect on fuel trims. This is why the primary O2 sensor (1 for I-4 engines, and generally 2 or more for V-engines... not at all an absolute rule tho... some boxer motors have a bunch of sensors) on lean burning engines like the VTEC-E costs $300+. It’s a highly sensitive, current sensing device. Once warmed up, and the vehicle has also satisfied other prerequisites, it’s given nearly 100% control of fuel for the engine while in closed loop. So… Secondary O2 sensors are not considered a potential issue tuning an OBD2 vehicle, seeing that they don’t have a significant effect on fuel trims, or any other ignition-related parameter.

At initial ignition, the engine is cold. Thus, the primary O2 sensor is too cold to be considered a reliable signal. The ECU then uses the MAP sensor to calculate fueling prior to combustion. At this point, the MAP sensor controls the engine's fuel trims. It's assuming a lot of other system parameters at this point. If you made any changes to your engine other than OEM replacement, the engine might be running oddly at this point. Once the O2 sensor is warmed up, the engine goes into closed loop. Now the O2 sensor has control of fueling by microseconds. Once in closed loop with O2 in control of fueling, the MAP sensor is only used as a refinement tool by the ECU. It looks at the difference in estimated load vs. actual load. The result of that comes in the form of LTFTs. The ECU tests itself on how reliably it can estimate fuel. As the ECU improves in anticipating driving conditions, the smoother, and more efficiently it can run. It does this by completing a drive cycle (which I'm not going into right now....). So.... if you lie to the MAP sensor, it will know because the O2 sensor can see it on the other end. Air and gas in, smoke and other nasty stuff comes out the other end...

About the O2 sensor signal thing... They all generate some kind of electrical signal, no matter what elements or chemistry is at work. How they achieve it is great bar conversation, but all we need to do is figure out a way to manipulate that signal, and it comes in two forms: voltage or current.

"... Does that answer your question?"
 
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