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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
pinpointing failure...please help

Hey guys...well, My motor went down a while ago and I only recently got round to getting into her...

and well, Im starting to think its an error at the machine shop.

otherwise, FJD needs to start selling Spiral locks instead of c-clips...

My c-clips broke...on one side, ONLY on cylinder one...and heres the damage..



Wrist pin ate my cylinder wall...



I have no idea how forces were generated in that direction to break my c-clip...but it did...


so yea....anyone in Colorado got a block?? >_<
 

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Ive used circlips in some engines that saw ridiculous track abuse, and never once did I have a circlip break on me. My bet is that it was never quite seated properly and worked its way out and broke that way.
 

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Dang dude. You've had some bum luck!

-Luke
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I know it Luke....Im thinkin of going back to the machine shop and making them pay for replacement parts and machining....

it only happened on that one cylinders..

and HOW IN THE HELL!!!!!!!!!!! Do you get that direction, or better still, that much direction of force on a wrist pin to make it pop through like that!!!

those grooves are a lot deeper than they look in the picture, Ill try and get some better ones tomorrow...


thats a $330 block...all in machine work....someone has hell to pay for this...you guys should see the rod bearing from it......

I paid for "cleaning" too..........yea...


Mains...


rod bearing.....
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Can someone with a better understanding of engineering than I, explain to me, how in the hell does a force get produced in that direction on a wrist pin enough to over come the tensile strength of a steel c-clip.

Engine was balanced
(rods, pistons, flywheel, pressure plate, crank pulley, etc.)
Crank was polished
ACL RACE Bearings all around the board.
Rods/Pistons assembled by machine shop

Everything....was done by the machine shop, everything except engine assembly. I did that.

After paying for everything including cleaning, considering I dont have an air compressor and they do, I knew it would be cleaned properly...

I guess not..

not to mention assembled WRONG.

How is that amount of side load possible??

I understand that when my bearing spun I got a lot of skirt loading, my piston skirts are scuffed to hell...and I think one of the pistons cracked a little too.. Ill get more pics tomorrow

right now Im just so confused, and frustrated and trying to understand what happened.


PROOF that you buy all the right parts, pay for all the right things, get everything precise and machined, and do everything possible you can to make an engine last and enjoyable....and the catastrophic can still strike.

My luck has consisted of...(in the past year to a year and a half)
Built an LS Rod with Y8 Piston motor.
- the block my friend gave me had a helicoil in the head stud hole...
head lifted...
dropped a valve...

and my other friend who helped assemble put the pistons in backwards...

This motor...
1st - original turbo takes a shit..
2 - drops a motor mount eating my cam gear
3 - spins a bearing

all of which to no fault of my own >_<

why on earth does my luck such so damn much..
 

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Which order of events happened. I remember you showing the bearings before but lay out a specific timeline.
When you assembled the motor were you certain that the c clip was in the groove all the way? What if it was only half seated?
-Luke
 

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1988 Honda CRX
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Cir clips normally do not break, they normally pop out then get munched up along with other things that get caught up in the mess.

Pins certainly do get end thrust, especially when rpm is high enough for everything to distort a little. The crank flexes a little, the rod alignment changes slightly, the rod flexes and twists little, the piston flexes a little also influencing alignment, the pin bends a bit and the block flexes a little.

Nothing can be machined absolutely perfectly. It can only be machined perfect at the level we can measure.

All this adds up to some sideways movement in the pin so it hammers the clip a bit.

Also the G forces on the legs of the clip may cause it to partly release its tension. Just think how fast a piston travels up and down the 90mm at 7000rpm and it has to stop and start twice for each turn of the crank. The amazing thing is they stay in, not that they come out.

Cir clips should always be installed with the sharp side against the piston and the blunt side against the pin so they dig into the grove better.
 

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Also, I always push the clip around in the grove to observe if it,s fully seated.
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Yea man, everything was cherry. They were still covered in that machinest white lube when I put'em in.


@Pat, I guess man..but dude, this motor was alive for 4000 miles.........how the hell does this happen so fast? it has to be a machining defect from when they assembled them or something.

and still my question, WHY only 1 cylinder?

and also..the other side of the rod, the clip is still there, just not all of it...it Broke! it didnt pop out...its still partially there in the other side.
 

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Do you really expect all 8 to simultaneously fail after they lasted 40,000,000 or more cycles. Once it pops out, destruction will occur in seconds.

If the parts fail, how is that the fitters fault. If they pop out that might be the fitters fault.

Millions of engines around the world have a long life with Cir clips.

Really serious race engines use Spirilocs because they are stronger and more reliable because they are not as prone to closing up from g force.

The end of the pin shape and the length of the pin are also important, but if the piston, pin and clip where bought as a set, they should be compatible.

I have never seen one break while in place. If this really happened, I think your quarrel is with the parts manufacturer.
 

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Yep, thats what I was saying. Ive used circlips in RACE engines taht were reved to 7k rpm. Never had one break, ever.
You dont put them in right, and youve got problems.
I wonder how long it could have run with the wrist pin rubbing on the cylinder wall. Did it ever start smoking from it?

Also, what events lead up to the spun bearing?
 

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They don't run long at all with a Cir clip out and the pin and bits of Cir clip against the wall. Well at least they don't run long without burning a lot of oil and blowing smoke and oil out.
 

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HIt up performance porting (PPorting) on here which is dustin. He is in loveland. Im sure he has a block laying around & can assemble the block and put it the specs you want as well.
 

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Cir clips should always be installed with the sharp side against the piston and the blunt side against the pin so they dig into the grove better.

X2. When the clips are manufactured there are pressed out of a plate and this leaves a rounded side on one side and a sharp side on the other side.
 

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X2. When the clips are manufactured there are pressed out of a plate and this leaves a rounded side on one side and a sharp side on the other side.
Shit I never noticed that when I installed mine. Oops. Oh well.

-Luke
 

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I complained the whole time while trying to figure out how to remove my spirl locks from my SRPs...but now I'm sorta glad they are that hard to remove. LOL!
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
It appear as though my quarrel is with FJD then....or whoever they get the clips from.

and it actually did smoke for a bit before it spun it....I thought that something happened to my rings, I had thought I had detonated a cylinder and cracked a ring land or something...

now Im wondering what happened first....Im gonna guess it kicked the pin out first and thats why it smoked....then the metal released from it grinding against the wall got in the oil and fucked my bearing all up causing it to spin.
 

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A local shop around here built an LS VTEC for a guy and didnt install the clips at all. Needless to say It bit the dust upon 1st start up. That shop is no longer in business...lol
 

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Spiralocks are a pain in the ass, but they don't break. Good luck with getting the Machine shop to help you out any. I have a D16A6 block with no crank. It's completely stripped.
 
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