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Discussion Starter #1
i know that these companies make sleeves..
Dart
AEBS
RS machines
Golden Eagle
Darton

who else is there?!?!
What sleeves are better?

& what is Better..
closed deck or a open deck!?!?
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i like tha look of tha closed deck, just looks more solid.. like it will last alot longer.. but i hear that open deck is better for cooling... :?:

:holla:

I posted here... cuz i plan on runnin @ least 350whp -- boosted & juiced
 
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Discussion Starter #2
i've ussed 3 different brands
Darton
Golden Eagel
Dart

Of the 3 and of any sleeve i'm seen as well. GEM are the best. First off the closed deck design is fine for a track only car or a car that hardly sees street usage, but they do tend to run warmer than a modified open deck such as gEM. the GEM sleeves allow for the best possible water flow of any sleeve. Darton sleeves I have used are full open design and I woudl not recommend for anything above 400-425 wheel power. No side wall support this cylinders can rock and maybe cack/break because of too mcuh movement w/o sidewall supports.

if 350 wheel power is your goal, there is NO need to juice it at all. save your $ and do a nice custom turbo setup. that's all your need at all. 350 is very ahchievable on a sleeved block. I would recommend going to a 78mm piston from a 75mm stock size as well. You would only need jucing IF you were building a "track" only car with a larger turbo and needed the NO2 to spool off the line better. but your not, so a decent turbo like a precision turbo well designed by them for your app will not only spool quickely but offer plenty of power.

i also recommend a DRAG turbo manifold for the D series over any other. slightly ported more to match and clean up is all that is needed to it. it will flow enough to product well into the 650 crank power ranges. the only manifolds that flow better than the drag for a d is the tubular designs like hytech, or maybe 1 or 2 otehrs. the Drag flows as good or better than the sschrome models. and does not have the boost creap assosated with their manifolds on 17+ lbs commonly seen.
 
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Discussion Starter #3
if you are only running 350Hp, the open deck D-sleeve is good enough. We have D-series sleeves as well that RS Machines does the sleeving for us.
Open deck should be enough for you and it does provide better cooling. I dont see any advantage to Closed deck unless you are getting up in the 600HP range.
We have customers pumping out 650-750 on the open deck B-series sleeves with no problem.
here's one of our Sleeved D16 blocks. Shown is a 78mm bore open deck block.


and on the bottom is a 75mm bore
 
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Discussion Starter #5
exo, why is there a HUGE gap showing between the #1 and #2 cylinders? how thick is that? I've enver seen a quality sleeved block with a gap that big. maybe it's how the light is hitting it, but to me that's not a good thing. Please offer more info so I can better understand that gapping issue. To me that shows it could possible shift this causing alignment of the cyninders to go out of spec and thus caysing issues with the crank jernals. and maybe crank the webbing at the bottom of the cylinders. (seen it happen a couple of times already due to a gapping left when sleeved.)

open or closed deck pricing on sleeving is aboutt he same. GEm sleeved jogs are about $850-$900 shipped average most places.
 
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Discussion Starter #6
What is the biggest bore size you can go on a D-series motor?
 
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Discussion Starter #7
due to the experiences of a local racer. i would always start with a 75mm bore. that way if it blows, u can go bigger before u have to throw away 2500 for a new short block. but if all you are looking to get is 350whp then u can definately run an open deck block.i think it will be cheaper also
 
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Discussion Starter #9
81 is NOT for FI setup either. it's for Na only. if you want FI biggest you "should ever go is about 78. anythign more makes the walls to thin for high boosting apps over 18 psi. i mean is the gasket sealing surface is too small between the cylinders to proeprly seal the cylinders off good.

so street 78mm is your max no mater what
 

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The Master Fabricator
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I have a 77mm RS sleeved block and it is BEAUTIFUL!!!

I also have a GE sleeved JDM DOHC ZC (75.5mm and FOR SALE b/c I am going Sohc vtec)

BOTH BLOCKS LOOK GREAT, but the RS SLEEVES ARE MUCH THICKER THAN THE GE SLEEVES... I think they will easily hold as much power even without the integrated blockguard, because the thickness of the sleeves will give more clamping surface on top anyway.
 
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Discussion Starter #11
oscarmayer said:
81 is NOT for FI setup either. it's for Na only. if you want FI biggest you "should ever go is about 78. anythign more makes the walls to thin for high boosting apps over 18 psi. i mean is the gasket sealing surface is too small between the cylinders to proeprly seal the cylinders off good.

so street 78mm is your max no mater what
Hrmmmm... I have a machine that can bore out cylinders to whatever bore you want it to be. But just takes awhile.
 
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Discussion Starter #12
pelsise said:
I also have a GE sleeved JDM DOHC ZC (75.5mm and FOR SALE b/c I am going Sohc vtec)
I'm guessing that is the Civic ZC (valve cover bolts on outside)?
 
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Discussion Starter #13
it's not the time for boring, it's the amount of space between the cylinders that becomes the issue guys. see there IS gasket material that seperates each combustion chamber, right? with me so far? if that becoems too little material, it will not properly seal, nor hold up.
 
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Discussion Starter #14
wow... that block makes me GE one look like wussy shit lol
 

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civiceg6 said:
oscarmayer said:
81 is NOT for FI setup either. it's for Na only. if you want FI biggest you "should ever go is about 78. anythign more makes the walls to thin for high boosting apps over 18 psi. i mean is the gasket sealing surface is too small between the cylinders to proeprly seal the cylinders off good.

so street 78mm is your max no mater what
Hrmmmm... I have a machine that can bore out cylinders to whatever bore you want it to be. But just takes awhile.
oscar's point was that you *shouldn't* bore it, not that it is physically impossible.
 
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Discussion Starter #16
Exospeed, you never answered my question reguarding the gap between the sleeves. why is there a gap there? I hope that was a bad block that you sent back for rework, and were just trying to show the sleeves themselves. Also did you linehone the crank journels? if you did, and that gap decides to flex, your goign to have the journels out of specs and thus causing crank binding and blow the motor. hopefully that was fixed.
 
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Discussion Starter #17
CivicRyda2k
have you ever seen a GEM sleeved block before? I'm guessing not up close. Fully open decked block cannot handle the same power as the gEm sleeved blocks because of no upper cylinder support. after 500 or so the cyninders can rock and this crank the webbing and cause block failure and think abotu what happens form there. I would take an opne block past 450 hp myself and that's still pushing it in my books despite any claims. see you guys want relyable and a sure thing, not "it can" because a race car does it. Drag races are easy on engines. why? it rungs for about 13 secs or less hard then shut down. a streetcar sees much more abuse than any race motor. about 1000x's more. Heck even stop and go traffic is a lot mroe stressfull than a drag race on the motor itself.

As far as 81mm goes, you go ahead and try to use 81 on a street car. you'll over heat that car before you reach the end of the first mile drive down the road. why? not enough material to properly dispurce the ehat gererated by the motor, thus causing the fluids itn he block itself to boil prematurely and overheat the ar. that's why it's only for racing not street. andonyl for NA setups not FI. It's not the strength of the sleeves. the GEM sleeves can do it. it's the heating and the gasket sealign issues that are the prolem.
 
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Discussion Starter #18
hey oscar.. sorry for the late reply. jus saw your reply jus now. the gapping will not make a diff in the performance of the block..
we try not to line hone if possible... I;ve heard other methods that they need to line hone everytime the block is sleeved. the way our sleeving process is done does not require line honing. its only done when the specs are really way off or using a totally diff crank from the original one of the block.
 
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