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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Before flaming my plans you should read this thread

http://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1210330&page=2

and this one

http://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1379997


At this point everything is hypothetical, BUT there is a good chance these plans will come into fruition. My friend and I will be starting an outreach ministry with his church soon, (he's a youth pastor, i'm an aspiring teacher/speaker/author/ninja). If you're anti-Christian then ignore this bit of info, but it's important to the story. Anyways, it will be a car ministry where the church will sponsor us to build a car to get people interested. The plans are sleeper all the way, and what's more sleeper than opening the hood to a stock d-series....as in stock airbox, stock exaust manifold etc. You might ask how we will build a respectable car with the stock airbox and exh mani. Well here's the plans.

MOTOR SETUP

-D16Z6 (ideally)
-built bottom end (sleeved, forged rods/pistons etc)
-Rear mounted turbo (mounted higher than usual so as to be not easily seen.
-BOV inside the stock airbox
-under-hood charge pipes under integra intake arm
-lots of boost
-lots of tuning on Ethanol (E85)
-400+ HP goal.

CHASSIS

-CRX or EF hatch, maybe EG sedan, but we wanna stay light.
-some weight redux. (at least we'll cut out the rear flooring and replace it with sheet metal, which will also allow us to mount the turbo where we want it.)
-Stock looking interior, with everything that is possible stripped out (stereo stuff, behind dash stuff.
- we'll probably need a roll cage unfortunatley which will make us not so sleeper, oh well.


I'm pretty excited about it.
 
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where are you getting your E85? and why use E85 when you can go straight alcohol? its a hell of alot cheaper to get and make yourself. if you have any ethanol tuning issues lemme know its my area of expertise.
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
vash_vts said:
where are you getting your E85? and why use E85 when you can go straight alcohol? its a hell of alot cheaper to get and make yourself. if you have any ethanol tuning issues lemme know its my area of expertise.
THANKS!

http://afdcmap.nrel.gov/locator/LocatePane.asp Ethanol is pretty easy to find. I haven't looked into alcohol injection, only alcohol consumption, and that's not fit to run in a car :beer:. (What!?!, Jesus drank alcohol too!) We're just in the thinking/planning stages now. If you have any informative links on alcohol post 'em up.
 
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well, basically to convert to alcohol all you have to do is make sure that everything that is touched by the ethanol is ethanol compatable. b.c of the corrosive nature of ethanol over time things tend to break down (this is from published research) im currently developing conversion kits for civics for the usdm's b/c thats the next fuel we're going to i guarrantee it and i wanna be on the ball when it comes over completely. and the statement that consumable alcohol cant be run is incorrect all ethanol can be consumed, and burned you just have to have an alcohol concentration higher than 80% to run properly, pure ethanol has an octane rating of 110, and the necessary air to fuel ratio is 7.0:1 as opposed to 14.0:1 like gasoline. also unlike gasoline the higher the compression you can run on ethanol the better. Dont do alcohol injection its a bunch of bs, just go full alcohol. if you need help finding the parts lemme know and i can tell you what you actually need to run pure ethanol. if you want more info pm me and i can let you know more in detail.
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Quoted from the Honda-Tech thread.

Not trying to say you don't know your stuff, just noting the conflicting info.

So there are many myths about ethanol. Most of these are not true. The largest one is probably that it is corrosive to aluminum and this is not true. Worries about hoses and seals is also a myth. I have been checking charts from companies that manufacture hoses and they show that ethanol is less agressive to most plastic and rubber materials. There are people here in Sweden that have been running their cars on ethanol for about seven years without any problems with aluminum fuelrails och plastic and rubber hoses and seals.
and

E85 and regular gas you will find out that you have to have about 40% more ethanol to create the same abount of energy. You know that when you run on gas to get a full combustion(is this right?) you have to have a A/F ratio of 14.7:1 right? When it comes to ethanol you want to have it at 9:1 and for E85 9.8:1.
the A/F ratio difference is probably becuase you're talking about pure alcohol and he'stalking about E85.
 
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oh i dont care about what some guy on honda tech says. theres mostly bs on there anyways. and its a fact that alcohol is a corrosive material, it immediately removes all the water from something b.c it is an acid, i can give you the chemical formula and some chemical reasons for why it is that way. it might be 9.0:1 all my text books say that 7.0:1 is the prime a/f ratio. but the whole thing about running 40% more fuel is true, its usually 30-40% more, but u also have to increase your compression ration to around 12:1 to run properly, (ethanol requires more heat and pressure to combust) so if you turbo and have higher comp you will run just fine
 

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Discussion Starter #7
hmmm....well the guy was speaking from experience, so i'm not quick to doubt him. Why don't you do a alcohol write up or something.
 

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vash_vts said:
oh i dont care about what some guy on honda tech says. theres mostly bs on there anyways. and its a fact that alcohol is a corrosive material, it immediately removes all the water from something b.c it is an acid, i can give you the chemical formula and some chemical reasons for why it is that way. it might be 9.0:1 all my text books say that 7.0:1 is the prime a/f ratio. but the whole thing about running 40% more fuel is true, its usually 30-40% more, but u also have to increase your compression ration to around 12:1 to run properly, (ethanol requires more heat and pressure to combust) so if you turbo and have higher comp you will run just fine
ethanol or methanol is BARELY considered an acid... but it does dry out things.

Per my calculations, stoichiometry for methanol = 6.44:1
stoichiometry for ethanol = 8.96:1

Though this is stoichiometry... probably want to go a little lean.


Here's a quick calculator for anyone who wants to calculate their own A/F ratios:

CaHbOcNdSe <--- the small letters are the number of each element
(ex. C2H6O = ethanol... a=2, b=6, c=1, d=0, e=0)

Z = a + (b/4) - (c/2) + e

A/F ratio = (28.85*4.76*Z)/(12a+b+16c+14d+32e)


BUT, don't forget, this is for PURE alcohol.
 
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right, the reason it causes problems is b.c very simply stated, alcohol LOVES water which is why when you drink it, what happens? you become dehydrated! im not exactly certain of the chemical reaction that alcohol has on rubbers and plastics, but do this science experiment, get some alcohol, stick a peice of rubber in it, close the lid and come back in a few weeks and see what happens to it, generally the rubber will begin to disintegrate. There are exceptions to this rule, but as a general rule alcohol will dry out most anything containing water, or organic compounds (hence why it cleans so well, and kills bacteria [it pulls the water out of the cell causing it to die]) i'll do a write up when i start offering alcohol conversion kits next spring, im still doing R&D on alcohol in conjunction with various vehicles.
 
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you don't need any of that your doing, I'm making clsoe to 4 now on a daily driver and using pump gas....

get the engine build RIGYHT the first time with good parts and good cam, porting and pistons. then get a good turbo, and properly ran piping and to top it off a good ecu system professionally tuned by a real tuning shop with a dyno. 400 is easy IF you spend the $ the right way. it's NOT cheap either so don;t expec to t spend $4500 and make 400 wheel pwoer safley daily. it wON'T happen... my motor costs $8800 with intake and port matched exhaust that you supply. (long block) from endyn. I've been ripping the crap outta mine and had not a single issue. Tuning and quality are the keys here.
 
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