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Discussion Starter #1
Whats up DSO,

Ive been having persistent cooling issues on my Z6 and last week the HG finally went. I wasn't able to check compression, because the #3 spark plug was seized. This lead me to belive that the head had developed a slight crack, so my head and a bare head (only included the head, cam, cam caps, and LMA holder) that I picked up a few months ago went off to the machine shop. I told them to resurface the bare head, pressure test it, new seals, etc., and then transfer my current valvetrain onto it.

When I took my head off, I set the motor to TDC on cyl #1 on the intake stroke, marked my timing belt in 3 places, marked my distributor in 5 places, and began the teardown. Got everything apart, and took everything to the machine shop. On my way home I started thinking, and began to get confused/worried about putting everything back together without messing up my tune. I thought the possibilties of the machine shop reassembling everything in the exact way it was when I brought it in were pretty damn slim. I called them this morning and asked if they could at least re-use the cam cap with my distributor marks on it, and they said no. They advised against using a different cam cap, as the cam gets "line-bored" to the head it runs in. I'm not knowledgeable enough to dispute them, so I said OK.

My question is this: Is there any way to reset my timing without having to go to my tuner so he can check that all is ok? When I spoke with him before the teardown, he said "with all the marks you made, you'll be perfectly fine." Now that those marks are gone, I don't think there is any way around towing the car to him and having him check on everything. Am I right? Or is there some simple way around this that I am overlooking? Any advice or input would be greatly appreciated.
 

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just make sure to retorque everything to spec, if its a stock cam and cam gear your mechanical timing will be just like stock with lining up the timing marks and slipping the belt on, i wouldnt rely on the markings that you made on the belt though...i tried it once and ended up having my belt move a bit so i just used the physical marks on the cam gear and crank gear to retime it. as for the distributor, more than likely (call him to double check) he set your ignition timing at stock and tuned from there which on a z6 its 16* at idle i believe, so just get a timing light and readjust it back to 16*, but like i said call him to make sure thats where he set it up for.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
just make sure to retorque everything to spec, if its a stock cam and cam gear your mechanical timing will be just like stock with lining up the timing marks and slipping the belt on, i wouldnt rely on the markings that you made on the belt though...i tried it once and ended up having my belt move a bit so i just used the physical marks on the cam gear and crank gear to retime it. as for the distributor, more than likely (call him to double check) he set your ignition timing at stock and tuned from there which on a z6 its 16* at idle i believe, so just get a timing light and readjust it back to 16*, but like i said call him to make sure thats where he set it up for.
That's what I was thinking, but when it comes to my tune and my timing, I want to be insanely careful. I think i read 16* BTDC as well, but I'll have to confirm. Thanks for the response.
 

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If the head is milled and the prior one wasn't that will throw off your physical timing and ignition, you'll need an adjustable cam gear to get everything back on track, for every 0.006 taken off the head you loose a 1/2 degree of timing, I believe these #'s are correct if not someone will chime in, this is what I was told by a machine shop.
 

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If the head is milled and the prior one wasn't that will throw off your physical timing and ignition, you'll need an adjustable cam gear to get everything back on track, for every 0.006 taken off the head you loose a 1/2 degree of timing, I believe these #'s are correct if not someone will chime in, this is what I was told by a machine shop.
.037" = one degree of cam timing change.

warm the car fully (rad fan on twice)
jump the service conector
set to 16BTDC the middle mark of the 3 grouped together

if your all all confused

redpepperracing.com has a manual factory from honda
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Been trying to get in touch with my tuner all day. I wish my shit wasn't password protected so I could just look for myself.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
So, due to the fact that my head is getting resurfaced, I MUST have an adjustable cam gear to set the timing correctly? If that's the case, i'll have to order one ASAP with more money I don't have. This is beginning to blow the proverbial goat.
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
I didn't give them a specific number to take off. The new head is unknown to me, so I figured better safe than sorry, and took it to the machine shop for a full rebuild, that way i KNOW the head is in good condition. I doubt they've even started on it to be honest, they said it wouldn't be done til mid week. Should I have them call me with the results when they check for flatness of the new head? If I can get away with my current cam gear I'll be really happy, as this little HG replacement has began to get expensive. They're charging me 285 plus the cost of the head set (gaskets etc), total should be around 350-375 i'd imagine. They are dissasembling my old head and doing a resurface, 3 angle valve job, hot tank and pressure testing on the new head, then installing the valvetrain from my old head onto the fresh one.

Thanks for the reply Danz. I read your posts and have learned a TON of no BS information from them. Glad DSO put you on staff!

and BTW......Go Bolts!!!!
 

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well if u just took it for a skim they probably removed like .001-.006

i wouldnt worry about an adjustable cam gear quite yet...


i milled .030 off my ZC block and i am still using a factory cam gear.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
well if u just took it for a skim they probably removed like .001-.006

i wouldnt worry about an adjustable cam gear quite yet...


i milled .030 off my ZC block and i am still using a factory cam gear.
Whew! That's a relief. Thanks for the info!
 

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That is good to know, I pulled out a 0.012 feller gauge today and put it up to the teeth area of an extra cam gear and though no way in hell that's close to a degree change in timing.
 

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I'm running .040 with stock gear the 1* retard will just push the powerband up a bit in the rpm band

Not the end of the world :)
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Well, the machine shop just called me to say my head was ready to be picked up....$411.75. Weeaaaaaak. And it just dawned on me that I need to get new head bolts. 6.89/each from honda. I know, I should just order ARP's but time is a limiting factor as this is my DD. I'll post pics and info when I pick it up.
 

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Holy FUCK what did they do to it? A full port and polish with flow bench runs 600 bucks an it's leveled after
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Just got off the phone with 5 honda dealerships in my area....and nobody has head bolts in stock. Weeaaaaaaak part deux.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Holy FUCK what did they do to it? A full port and polish with flow bench runs 600 bucks an it's leveled after
I brought them 2 heads, one bare with cam and caps, and the other was my suspected cracked head that had the HG blow. The tanked, pressure tested, and resurfaced the bare head, did a 3 angle valve job, installed new seals everywhere, valve adjustment, installed my old valvetrain on the new head, and the price includes my new HG, IM gasket, Exh. gasket, etc. Did I just get it in the pooper?
 

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Discussion Starter #19
just asking but did they even check the old head for a crack just to be sure its not the block?
Im fairly certain the block is fine. Too many symptoms were pointing to the head, namely the seized #3 plug. I'll just have to see what it does when I fire it up. Thanks for the bad juju LOL

Just got everything home, and the head looks great. The machinist had already gone home when I picked it up. so I'll have to wait until tomorrow morning to see how much he took off. For now, I'm setting everything back up the way it was. Pics are going up now.

ONE PROBLEM...... I'm concerned with the HG...there is a small portion in the front of the gasket that hangs over the edge of the block. Everything else lines up dead nuts, but these little overhangy parts are concerning me. I'm probably being paranoid, but I want to be sure before I torque the head bolts.
 

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