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The Great Weldini
91 civic
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Discussion Starter #1
ok before i start i wanted to stated first i was bored and when i'm bored i do alot of reading. lol. so my info/reading started with 2 magazines Import Tuners 2/08 and Honda Tuning 2/08. now please bear with my ramble/rant there's a point and i know maybe someone has done this before, it just i haven't stumble on the info.

The first reading started with Import Tuning, there a really awesome artical about camshafts. it was a interview/info by Dave Hsu, founder and brains behind Skunk2. i think everyone should read it. i might retype the info for everyone or wait till it released; if they release the info.

"Camshaft 102: the next step in slecting cams."

The second was in Honda Tuning about Bernardo Martinez '07 NASA Honda Challange Championship. the long/short was how everyone cried about his build cause it was hands down the fastest car in his class. yet while being in the rule book. and all the crying and bitch from other ppl the rules were once again changed because of it. at time ppl can be bitches.

now i now the question i have are a bit in left field but i feel if i don't asked them correctly some idiot will botych them. so here goes:

i first will state that i know the difference between a SOHC, DOHC, D-motor, B-motor and K-motor. but the question goes about along the line of the interchanging between of the motors and we know that everything is interchanginable, so did bernardo martinez. now the question of the cams was due to what Bernardo did. let's take his K build in prespective. then translated to a D.

his build yeild [email protected],500rpm at the axle on the dyno and [email protected],500 on a roller dyno at the national. there's more to the build but those are some serious N/A all motor numbers.

K24a1 block
'06 TSX rods
'05 S2000m pistons
RSX oil pump
Integra JDM Type R intake cam(oem)
'06 TSX exhaust cam(oem)
TSX VTC cam gear(the cam gear give a 40* advance)

now a on a N/A all motor build usually goes like:

ZC cam
y7 cam gear
b2/b7/a6 head
D16a6 block
D16a1/ZC dome pistons
B18a/b LS rods


now my question is: is it possible in mix matching different specs of different sohc or even a dohc int/ext cam spec on a custom cut cam. wait before some state you can't use dohc specs on a sohc cam. you're missing the question. when you tune(i might be a little off here) a dohc, you can independently adjust your int/ext cams. now yes i know since in the dohc you can really fine tune and in the sohc depending if you adv/ret the car act weird. so lets say(and It a rhetorical question) is it posible to almost use the same or similar specs. in how the dohc head reacts in the sense of how the different degreeing the int/ext cams, then have a sohc cam cut in the same way of degree of the opening and closing of the int/ext. the only reason i'm comparing it in is the (a6/b2/b7),(z6/y8) and B16 head are the best flowing heads for they're application? hence non-vtec/v-tec so wouldn't the specs/degreeing translate over almost the same? in sense?

well i hope ppl with some really helpful info can point me to the right direction. thank you for you ear.

remo.
 

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i save your ass when you wreck
94 hatchback cx
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6,693 Posts
this is by far over my head hahaha
 

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The Great Weldini
91 civic
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8,901 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
thats why i'm asking it matt, to make it simpler. i haven't decided to copy and paste it on H-T yet i want to get some ppl feedback on this or tell me it's not worth the agravation.
 

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Friend of the D
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It's late.... Are you talking about adjusting the lobe seperation on a SOHC cam, based on how you degree the cams in a DOHC application? Or did that just go over my head too?
 

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The Great Weldini
91 civic
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8,901 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
It's late.... Are you talking about adjusting the lobe seperation on a SOHC cam, based on how you degree the cams in a DOHC application? Or did that just go over my head too?
well yes and no. yes on the lob seperation but not necessary on the B motor cam specs. just in general yes.

i know it can/or has be somewhat done but it seems like no one wants to talk. but think about for a sec, anyone can buy a cam off the self but being able to customize with know lob sepreation. lets take like a crower stage 2 int degree/spec and a exospeed stage 3 ext degree/spec or vise a versa. i know ppl will say ask Bisi i really don't like bother a man that work so hard for a question so small, i'll rather read it then when i'm ready to actually buy something then i have somewhat the info/question to ask.
 

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I think if you want to fuck with sohc like you can dohc... then buy a fucking dohc... i need another drink after reading that...
 

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i save your ass when you wreck
94 hatchback cx
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I think if you want to fuck with sohc like you can dohc... then buy a fucking dohc... i need another drink after reading that...
:fag::slap::hammer::stfu:
 

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Im not 100% sure what you are trying to get at. But I think your asking if to use some sort of custom cam similar to OEM spec/functions?

From what I believe you cant even use "custom grind cams" for some of these classes. So will your question even apply?

I dont know.. im confused. haha.
 

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hmmm i may be lost also... remoer posted a good question.. i know some of the more knowledgeable people will chime in.. but il take a stab (so id look dumb) hahaha

dohc to sohc..
being that in a dohc appl. u can adjust the intake cam without adjusting the exh. cam and vice versa.. u can tune/adjust to bleed off comp. on certain appl. and we've done this (when too much comp for daily happens) or sumthing.. it should be possible to do this with a sohc cam, just as long as it is a welded, or a billet core cam that would give a near endless window of options... like for example if the lift and dur. is fixed.. in a dohc appl. u can adjust the intake (retard) to maybe delay the closing point (if the intake is up for it) or, retard the exh. and not touch the intake (so the exh. closes a bit later) .. maybe this could give more top end depends on the engine..
but if that was the question? it is def possible..

(lol im not even sure if i made sense) hahaha
 

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lol.

The newer Honda's have more technology and, especially the K's, are more performance oriented. I don't think you can really do the same for the D because they were always economy oriented vs. the B's, which were the performance oriented ones. IIRC, the profiles of the Crower stage-3 are similar to a stock B18C1 cam profile, and that's considered a big upgrade for the D-series.

D is to B, as R is to K. L is pretty much your 8-valve and <1500cc D's :D
 

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i think what remo, and transzex is saying is.. given the same lift and duration on the spec sheet of the camshaft? LSA can make 1 cam seem like its got mad lift and dur. lol and the other being tame...
 

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The Great Weldini
91 civic
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8,901 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
Im not 100% sure what you are trying to get at. But I think your asking if to use some sort of custom cam similar to OEM spec/functions?

From what I believe you cant even use "custom grind cams" for some of these classes. So will your question even apply?

I dont know.. im confused. haha.
sit back a bit and you see what i'm trying to say.

hmmm i may be lost also... remoer posted a good question.. i know some of the more knowledgeable people will chime in.. but il take a stab (so id look dumb) hahaha

dohc to sohc..
being that in a dohc appl. u can adjust the intake cam without adjusting the exh. cam and vice versa.. u can tune/adjust to bleed off comp. on certain appl. and we've done this (when too much comp for daily happens) or sumthing.. it should be possible to do this with a sohc cam, just as long as it is a welded, or a billet core cam that would give a near endless window of options... like for example if the lift and dur. is fixed.. in a dohc appl. u can adjust the intake (retard) to maybe delay the closing point (if the intake is up for it) or, retard the exh. and not touch the intake (so the exh. closes a bit later) .. maybe this could give more top end depends on the engine..
but if that was the question? it is def possible..

(lol im not even sure if i made sense) hahaha
you're in the ballpark.

lobe sep.

simple.

game over.
i'll repost your post from OCO, bone.

i think what remo, and transzex is saying is.. given the same lift and duration on the spec sheet of the camshaft? LSA can make 1 cam seem like its got mad lift and dur. lol and the other being tame...
first i post bone post which explains a bit more.

transzex said:
fuck stages, OK!

That is more confusing than 3/4 race cams and full race cams. Likely only Don will know, or have to ask his dad.

DOHC has only ONE advantage over SOHC, to change the lope seperation angle, thats it cam wise. Instead of having to cut a new cam, you can just adv/ret one cam while leaving the other untouched.

I read an OLD article years ago......it went something like this.......

"DOHC had more of an advantage because we were able to advanced both cams 2 degrees to shift the powerband."

Sorry, same thing would have happen on a SOHC. Now if they would have advanced the intake cam, retarded the exhaust cam, the wider lobe seperation would have calmed done the idle GREATLY, but hurt very top rpm performance.

DOHC offers tunability, able to change the lobe sep. to dial in the motor to YOUR liking.
the bold comment was what i was refering to. but a little bit more. in the sense of having the came of course aggresive and the lob sperated. who cares about idle. but having a a huge powerband for bottom to top would be nice.
 

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got it from ur first post.. just had a hard time posting/explaining haha now if i could have said it in my language? lol

remoer, what ur after, should be doable def. and bisi/webcam can do it.. maybe we will both ask the same question.. which is "how do we go about finding the optimum lsa" ?
 

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would like to add: (regards to bones oco post)
that actually happend to us.. there wer a bunch of street B's that idle'd crappy.. but had a very good powerband.. like good mid and good top end..
owner kept asking if we can fix the idle.. we showed him the result on the dyno.. and he drove home with a not so stock idle.. (saw he lost power) lol
 

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The Great Weldini
91 civic
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Discussion Starter #18
got it from ur first post.. just had a hard time posting/explaining haha now if i could have said it in my language? lol

remoer, what ur after, should be doable def. and bisi/webcam can do it.. maybe we will both ask the same question.. which is "how do we go about finding the optimum lsa" ?
lsa?

would like to add: (regards to bones oco post)
that actually happend to us.. there wer a bunch of street B's that idle'd crappy.. but had a very good powerband.. like good mid and good top end..
owner kept asking if we can fix the idle.. we showed him the result on the dyno.. and he drove home with a not so stock idle.. (saw he lost power) lol
it's very true, in terms of how do you say getting the best of both worlds on a fine tune sohc. don't get me wrong. with our engines since it's only one cam we don't have the fine tuning of a two cams. so can we cut a cam that can help this problem on the down fall of it is that you need to measure twice and cut once.
 

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Some one like Bisi must have looked at this. There is also the question of overlap which relates to Lobe Seperation Angle and the duration. I only mention that, because I was thinking about the differences between a NA cam and a boost cam. You want less overlap in boost, so to keep the same LSA you would have to reduce the duration or you could keep the same duration and change the LSA. I would seem that what is best for NA, may not be ideal for boost as far as lobe seperation goes?
 

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LSA i meant.. lobe sep. angle..

funny thing though, prior to getting a welded cam.. bisi and i had a talk about this.. etc, and i got mine worked for optimum power, and idle is like
8th on the top ten list lol and i cant w8t to run it, so its def possible..

what ur after.. is indeed doable.. just have to find a cam guy who can work with u and would listen to ur needs.. i got bisi in mind! hehe
 
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