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Discussion Starter #1
I've been running a JRSC setup with 170whp for over 7 years. Learned a few lessons along the way but for the greater part, this setup has been very reliable autocrossing and in the last 2 years, on the road courses. Well, i'm wanting more power and want to keep the d16 but the car is going to be mainly for track duty in lapping and time attack events. Does anyone have experience with reliability of turboed d16's?

The plan is for forged rods and pistons, and I'm currently running a standalone ecu so the tune will be there. My main concern is getting rid of the excess heat and not melting through pistons. I run a fairly large oil cooler already which is essential with these motors. I'll wait for a few responses first before I post the setup I have in mind. Any experiences out there? Failed motors on the track? Failure modes?
 

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A turbo setup for the track can easily be just as reliable as the JRSC setup. You just have to address all the issues and have reliable parts, a solid tune, and a good install. You'll want a turbo on the smaller side. You already run an oil cooler so tha is a plus.
 

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d-series resident crybaby
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A turbo setup for the track can easily be just as reliable as the JRSC setup. You just have to address all the issues and have reliable parts, a solid tune, and a good install. You'll want a turbo on the smaller side. You already run an oil cooler so tha is a plus.
Yeah so pretty much buy everything from Go-autoworks! :D
 

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Not to thread jack or anything but Iam cureious about oil coolers.

Say theres some times of the year where its really cold month out and you have to drive your car with an oil cooler, will it drop the temps of the oil to much? will it be harsh on parts of sorts? Is there a do and donts of oil coolers?
 

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I've been tracking my hatchback with a d16z6 this summer (not serious racing, just trackdays for fun). I was at about 190 whp with a t3 .42/.48 on a bone stock d16z6 just with arp headstuds. The engine is still fine, with no signs of wear. The only things I had problems with was overheating, and brakes. I got rid of most of the overheating issues with normal mods like fan shroud, spacing up the hood and cutting the bumper etc. I did not run with an oil cooler, which was a mistake, so I'll be adding it this winter. That should bring the oveall temps down some.

I'm running 260mm brakes in front with galfer pads, and the si discs in the rear. They usually last 8-10 laps before they give up. I think some air ducts should help, and I'm thinking of getting some 280mm discs along with integra calipers.

I'm building the block with some custom I-beams and vitara's this winter, and upgrading the turbo cold side. I have no idea how the vitara's will hold up in a setting like this, cause I couldn't find any info about it, so I thought I should give it a try :) Dont know if this was any help for you, or what kind of answer's you were looking for, but you can take a look at the link in my sig for more info if you like :)
 

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Not to thread jack or anything but Iam cureious about oil coolers.

Say theres some times of the montsh where its really cold out and you have to drive your car with an oil cooler, will it drop the temps of the oil to much? will it be harsh on parts of sorts? Is there a do and donts of oil coolers?

Just make sure that the lines are big enouigh, and run a thermostat if you're driving it on the street and you should be fine :)
 

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racist-bigot-sexist-homophob
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User gpny has a 10:1 c/r turbo d and tracks his car regularly IIRC. IDK if he has a build thread but try searching for his threads and maybe you can find some useful info. Like the avatar pic btw.
 

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t3 .42/.48 should be perfect with good midrange and get you to 200 ish.

i personally think that turbo setups are more reliable than sc setups because you dont have to rely on a belt system that can fail.

you can find a small t3 for a pretty low price. theyre fairly inexpensive and plentiful.

youll want to look for the smallest turbo within your power goals for a road course/ auto-x.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thanks, gpny is the only link I found to lapping with a turbo d16. Even at that it looks like he's only getting started and has done a couple events. I'm looking at about 10 events a year with 2 drivers and need an engine that can last at least a season. The goal is for 300whp with a gt28rs or bullseye s252 and powerband down to 4000rpm. Piston cooling oil squirters I can do but i'm not particularly interested in sleeving a block. Need to know where the weak points are with these motors. I do like the idea of sticking with the d-series in addition to the weight and cost advantage.
 

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i've heard better things about the gt28r vs gt28rs (i.e. quicker spool time.) there's a lot of 1.8L dubber conversation about the gt28r and they seem to agree that it's fully spooled by 2500rpm... but that's on a 1.8L. on a d15, the smallest gt28 will be spooled at ~2500rpm but it won't get you to 300hp. that sounds pretty damn extreme for auto-xing anyway...
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
Steinar, I read your post, thank you. I meant to refer to boosted setups making significantly more power. I know how well my d16 holds up to sub 200whp.

Practice would see the car run for about 30 min at a time. Timed sessions would be shorter, about 15 minutes and 4 sessions per day. The nice thing with a turbo will be that I can preserve the motor running less boost during practice. An event weekend will probably see about 3-4 hours of track time.

I'm tending towards running a vitara setup simply because of the uncertainty. I could handle losing a few hundred bucks in a block and pistons versus ruining a set of forged pistons, an expensive learning experience. And I would definitely run oil squirters in that case since machine shop work is near free for me.
 

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The Master Fabricator
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I autocross the car often with 2 drivers and it's fine.

Unfortunately, my track experience is somewhat limited. I've done only 1 hpde. It was a great experience and I did about 130 track miles that day. I did not have an oil cooler at the time.

I have an external Canton Mecca Oil filter and had an infrared thermometer which allowed me to measure temps coming off the track.

After the first and second sessions the oil was fine at 210 degrees.

On the 4th session, the car got hotter and the oil was reading 260degrees at the end of the session. I traced this to a coolant issue because I had changed the coolant to water/water wetter the night before and had a bubble in the coolant. I don't think it was head lift because the car's been fine since and was fine on the next last session out. The oil looked fine after also. At the track day I was at, a guy blew his much slower stock b16A engined civic on fewer laps than what I did.

I will be returning to the track next year with a setrab 125 oil cooler (small but has 25 rows) and a Canton thermostat.

In terms of setup, I have a 10:1 comp 77mm RS sleeved block with JE pistons and AEM rods that I built myself and have a small 16g turbo with a 10cm exhaust housing. It was the 1st motor I ever built and I built it for more power than I intended to run through it. It's been running very well for 10,000 miles over the past 4 years. I don't use the car except to autocross, or make long trips, so I would say that the motor leads a pretty tough life...

That said:
- I think that you'll be fine tracking the car.
- I think that 300 whp might be pushing it a bit on a stock sleeved block.
- Heat management is key and it's a part I need to improve on My own setup. You said you have a large oil cooler which is great. What kind of radiator do you have? I have a cheap ebay dual core brass radiator and for all but the track day it's been fine. A nice thick aluminum unit would help you.
- I would not run oil squirters as the d16 block is not designed for it and I would be worried about not having enough oil pressure.
- I would wrap the exhaust with heat wrap to lower engine bay temperatures.
- I would stay away from the Vitaras unless you get FJT's extended rods to keep compression a little higher. I would stick with decent forged pistons. I got the JE's which slap a bit when cold but a very forgiving when hot. Run 9.5:1 comp to be able to run lower boost and improve the torque curve and spool (look at my dyno... the top end could be higher, but the mid range is Excellent! - Also, I AM running a Catalytic converter which isn't good for power)
- I would go with the gt28RS turbo. I was told by the garrett people that the RS wheel what a much better design than the R wheel a few years ago (more efficient)
- Get a good tune. Discuss it with your tuner and tell them you'll be road racing the car. They'll make it more conservative than on a drag race setup.

I was keeping an Eye on my oil pressure and I backed off as soon as I saw the pressure wasn't as high as normal. The oil pressure gauge is a great way to see if you're getting too hot.
 

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Thanks, gpny is the only link I found to lapping with a turbo d16. Even at that it looks like he's only getting started and has done a couple events. I'm looking at about 10 events a year with 2 drivers and need an engine that can last at least a season. The goal is for 300whp with a gt28rs or bullseye s252 and powerband down to 4000rpm. Piston cooling oil squirters I can do but i'm not particularly interested in sleeving a block. Need to know where the weak points are with these motors. I do like the idea of sticking with the d-series in addition to the weight and cost advantage.
shoot just buy my CRX its already ready to rock and would be perfect for what you want to do, and every thing is minty fresh. i make so much low end power it would be perfect for lapping. my car is for sale in the for sale section. :) shameless plug i know lol
 

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Discussion Starter #17
gpny, what axles do you use for your ax/track car?

I run a data acq. unit that interfaces with my ecu. It has a dash with configurable warning lights for temps and pressures. I currently have a 25 row b&m cooler but it is barely enough on the warm days and I'm thinking of going even larger.
 

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The Master Fabricator
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gpny, what axles do you use for your ax/track car?

I run a data acq. unit that interfaces with my ecu. It has a dash with configurable warning lights for temps and pressures. I currently have a 25 row b&m cooler but it is barely enough on the warm days and I'm thinking of going even larger.
You setup sound nice. Which one is it? I've been looking at adding an additional display to monitor egt on each cylinder as well as oil temp, water temp, and oil pressure.

Are you happy with the B&M Core? What size lines are you running and what pressure drop are you seeing? Do you have a fan to force air through it? I've seen a setrab/mocal AN temp switch that could control a fan to keep oil temps down if you don't already have that. I'm frankly quite surprised that such a large cooler is borderline. I was going to put my cooler behind the driver side foglight duct and cut out some vents on the bottom of the plastic guard in front of the wheel to let air flow through.

In terms of axles, I've been using low mileage oem non rebuilt axles. I have a set of stage 2.5 gators with 30 spline shafts and upgraded boots waiting to go on if a stock axle breaks. I just got some 275-35-15 tires to test on the front for autox. I expect the grip those tires provide may kill the axles even with the quaife... I was very happy with Glen's knowledgeability and his thoroughness in answering my questions. I know he's had some bad rep in the past, but I thought he was very good dealing with me. What blocck do you have? If it's a Z6, you might want to hunt down a ZC with the intermediate shaft... I would do it if my block had the holes, but since it's a Y8 block, I can't.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
It's an AIM XG Log. Decent hardware, great software.

With the cooler, I'll usually see temps up to 215 on hot days. Ideally, I like to keep it at 180-210 and I maintain that by adjusting an air blocker in front of it. I have seen temps up to 230 before and at that point my pressures are at minimum spec (10psi idle, [email protected]>3000rpm). Not sure what the pressure drop was after install since the pressure sensor was put in at the same time as the cooler. B&M makes an excellent cooler with good cust. service. Design is good too, I used to work at the company that manufactures them.



The 90 deg fittings weren't ideal but they're -10 lines.

It's a y8 block and z6 head. I'm looking for a z6 block to do the build though.
 

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It's an AIM XG Log. Decent hardware, great software.

With the cooler, I'll usually see temps up to 215 on hot days. Ideally, I like to keep it at 180-210 and I maintain that by adjusting an air blocker in front of it. I have seen temps up to 230 before and at that point my pressures are at minimum spec (10psi idle, [email protected]>3000rpm). Not sure what the pressure drop was after install since the pressure sensor was put in at the same time as the cooler.
What kind of oil are you using? If you see that kind of pressure drop at that temperature it sounds like you could use a little higher grade oil. I tried different oil with different viscosity and the pressure drop at high temperature swings a LOT...
 
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