Honda D Series Forum banner

1 - 20 of 25 Posts

·
Registered
CRX, Wrangler
Joined
·
397 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Since October I have been doing work to my '91 crx Si D16A6.

I broke a timing belt, so I decided to replace / upgrade a lot of items while I had an excuse.

I pulled the head, and replaced the HG with the D16Z6 metal one. I did a very mild port & polish. I cleaned the combustion chambers and the pistons, as well as the head and valves (the valves were not bent from the timing belt break). I replaced the valve seals, the various gaskets & o-rings on the head, the cam ends, the valve cover, and under the rocker arm assembly. I installed ARP headstuds. I cleaned up the castings on the IM, and cleaned the TB. I replaced the IM, TB, and EM gaskets with new ones. I replaced the timing belt, tensioner and spring, and water pump. I replaced all the various coolant hoses that run in and out of the head. I replaced the plug wires, cap, rotor, and plugs. I also got a used IACV off of ebay and installed it in the hopes of fixing a bad idle it had prior to the belt breaking.

The mating surfaces were incredibly clean. There was no scratches, or gasket residue on either surface.

I did all of the above with OEM Honda parts from Majestic Honda (Except the headstuds, and plugs, of course).

I finally got it all back together on Sunday, after over a month of it being open. (I did work as I could afford it, I didn't buy everything at once)

I nervously primed the fuel system, and found that fuel was leaking out of my injector / fuel rail junction.. so I fixed that and reprimed the system.. and everything held.

I turned the key and the vehicle started up - I was happy to hear it running after all of that work. It was idling better than it ever did before, except it was smoking. I assumed the smoke was coming from residue left in the motor from when I cleaned it.

When I took it for a ride, it felt like it had no power. I brought it back to my garage, and realized that my timing belt was 1 tooth off. I fixed that, and took it out again, and it kicked ass. It had tons of power, and idled and ran better than before - except the cloud of smoke.

Since I got it back together I have set the timing, and changed the oil, and coolant - which both were clear, they had no traces of contamination.

The smoke does not look like oil, or coolant, it doesn't smell like coolant. It just looks gray, and smells like gross exhaust.

I ran a leak down compression test, and it came up really good. There was no leakage detected past the rings, or past the HG. I pulled the plugs and they were covered with goo, not oil, not coolant, just black tar-y goo. So I replaced them again.

Occasionally I get a CEL and the ECU blinks 1 time - which is the O2 sensor. I assume it's getting clogged up due to all the smoke and crap coming past it. When I get the CEL, the engine misfires under load. I checked and rechecked the wiring, and it's connected perfectly. I will pull the o2 sensor - and I assume it wil be covered with the goo mentioned above.

Is it normal for a motor to smoke like this for a little bit after it's been open so long? I'm getting smoke slightly less than when someone seafoams their car.. it's a heck of a lot.

I probably only have 3 miles on the car since I got it back together. Should I just run it, and hope it clears up?

I did have a lot of solvents in and near the combustion chamber, and head. I imagine they could still be burning off.

ANY QUESTIONS ARE WELCOME. I just want to make sure my car is ok, and I'd like to get it running well again. My fiance is beginning to look at me funny, you got to help me here guys!

Sorry for the big post. I figured more information was better than less.

-Des!
 

·
DROP IT LIKE IT'S HOT
2003 Civic Si
Joined
·
3,003 Posts
Why dont you let the car run for a couple of minutes and see if it still smokes. I dont know what else to tell you
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mixelplix

·
Registered
Joined
·
407 Posts
.

is it possible that it is just vapour from your exhaust since its cold out? you would not be the first to mistake this, i have in the past as well. It takes a while for a car to warm up enought to eliminate all the water from the ex system.

the other possibility may be that since you freshened up the top, the bottom is not sealing as well, although you have checked compression, etc. so i dont see this so much being an issue.

m.
 

·
Registered
See above...
Joined
·
13,322 Posts
Yeah, just try letting it idle for some time... The exhaust sounds like to was running rich (not oil, or coolant you mentioned) and it was probably caused by the O2 covered in that crap (excess solvents buring off). Clean off the sensor (hopefully it'll still work right) and don't reinstall during the idle period if you think it'll get crapped on again. Maybe 10 tens minutes let us all know what happens.

Good job on the rebuild though!
 

·
Registered
1995 Civic EX Coupe
Joined
·
579 Posts
after doin a complete top end rebuild on my old GSR motor, i let it run in the garage for about 15 minutes or so before it finally stopped smoking. filled up my whole street too lol
 

·
Registered
CRX, Wrangler
Joined
·
397 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
I've let it idle for over an hour now, and it's still smoking.

I'm going to let it cool down and check my oil level. I'm not sure what the hell it is, but I'm worried.

If the rings are shot, or some thing's wrong with the bottom end, I swear I'll pull the motor and build it like crazy.

The thing that drives me crazy is that it idles, and runs like a champ other than the smoke.

-Des!
 

·
Registered
EX coupe
Joined
·
758 Posts
have u checked your oil level? if it is dropping.....then id say A ring or something along those lines......or....your car is running super duper pig rich...and just eating shit alive....ill look at ur vid now though...

eDIT: Rich mabe.....to much fuel...or oil.....check both...
 

·
Registered
See above...
Joined
·
13,322 Posts
That's what I thought was odd; you said the smoke didn't seem like it was oil or coolant. So maybe fuel still? But how would have the fuel delivery been changed during the rebuild?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
407 Posts
.

take more vid in the morning. from what i saw your basicaly blowing out vapor from the exhaust. cars after they have sat for a while will do this. It can take quite a bit of driving to get rid of it all from the system. it looks like white smoke that dissapates not too long after exiting the muffler.

how is your coolant level? any issues there?

you mentioned a 02 error code has it happened only once not to return or is it a continious prob?

one other thing,
if everything checks out, compression, fluids levels, ecu, timing, etc. might want to put some miles on it to get things nice and wram.

thanks
m.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,586 Posts
Did you check to make sure the deck and head were level before you put the head back on? It also dosent' look like you have the valves or seats cut. If you have a valve that bent only slightly and slopped out the gap between it and the guide you could be drawing in oil.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
924 Posts
Could be a valve seal was not installed right or is damaged? I had an a6 with the same problem. Runs strong, idles great but smokes.
 

·
Registered
CRX, Wrangler
Joined
·
397 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
how is your coolant level? any issues there?

you mentioned a 02 error code has it happened only once not to return or is it a continious prob?
The coolant is clean, and seems to be sitting at the right level.

I've driven the car twice, and both times the CEL came on for the O2 sensor.

I'll take another vid when the sun is out. It's persistent smoke.

Dweezil said:
Did you check to make sure the deck and head were level before you put the head back on? It also dosent' look like you have the valves or seats cut. If you have a valve that bent only slightly and slopped out the gap between it and the guide you could be drawing in oil.
I didn't have either surface decked. I figured that since I've never overheated before, and I wasn't losing fluids that the head had to be fine. I lapped both the intake and exhaust valves. I also rolled them on a piece of glass to see if they were true.. they appeared to be. I have also leak down tested the motor since it started smoking like a pig, and the tests came up good. Your point is completely valid though - and I appreciate it - I just hope you're not correct :D

Menkio said:
when you did a "mild" port and polish, did you take out any of the valves, if so that's your problem.

valve job ftw.
Yes, I took out all of the valves to clean up the casting marks on the runners. I keep the valves in order, so that they went back in the same order they came out. I also cleaned off the buildup on the stems of the exhaust valves. I didn't touch the stems where they go through the valve seal though.

Please explain what you mean? I'm not sure how removing the valves relates to the smoke.


24-7 said:
Could be a valve seal was not installed right or is damaged? I had an a6 with the same problem. Runs strong, idles great but smokes.
That's an awesome idea. I really hope that's the problem. I installed the valve seals with a 10mm deepwell, and a rubber mallet. They appeared to be seated fully.

There's no other way to check their condition other than removing the valve springs again, is there? I would really prefer not to go through that nightmare again.

-Des!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
105 Posts
"I ran a leak down compression test, and it came up really good. There was no leakage detected past the rings, or past the HG. I pulled the plugs and they were covered with goo, not oil, not coolant, just black tar-y goo. So I replaced them again."

smoke!! i`d be trying to find out where that black goo is coming from? could tell you exactly whats up!
 

·
my name says Guest, but Im really a MEMBER
Joined
·
10,488 Posts
pull the o2 sensor. and drive it for a while and see if it goes away, in hope that it's nothing serious. Taking the cheap way out and trying to get things done always causes what-ifs.

With the .o2 not working, it would run a little rich. The injectors could be leaking or the FPR faulty. I just throwing out plausible causes, if its fuel.

I would just remove the o2 sensor, seeing is how it keeps getting slugded up and put some highway miles on it and hope it goes away.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
There's no other way to check their condition other than removing the valve springs again, is there? I would really prefer not to go through that nightmare again.
You could try popping the intake mani off and looking at the valves. If a seal was leaking, you'd see a film of oil on the valve, however, since you said that ALL 4 plugs were goop'd, i wouldn't suspect a valve seal. If one was oily, i'd say that would be a possibility, but not all 4.

I'd change the O2. Its possible that its burned up and making the car run pig-ass rich. You could also do a fuel pressure test.
 

·
Registered
CRX, Wrangler
Joined
·
397 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
Well, I'm not going to deal with the CRX until after the holidays are over.. it's frustrating me.

I checked the oil level thoroughly, and then let the car idle for an hour or two. I let it cool down and checked the oil level again - sure enough I lost quite a bit.

So, although the smoke does not smell like oil, it is losing oil - and it's not leaking.

That leads me to believe that it's either the rings (hopefully not) or the valve seals. There's no way I could be losing oil but not coolant with a head gasket, right?

I ordered a valve keeper tool, and when that comes in I'm going to check the valve seals. I'll also run a standard compression test (not a leak down, as I did before) and see what happens.

I'll also pull the plugs again, and see what they look like.

I may also pull the header and run the car for a minute, to see if the smoke is coming from one cylinder (depending on the results of the compression test).

My coolant looks clean and the level is good, so I think I've ruled out the brand new HG. That only leaves rings or valve seals... hopefully it's the valve seals.

Any other opinions are appreciated.

-Des!
 
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
Top