[Stefanzoh]

Hi all. I recently noticed a loss in oil pressure at cold start idle. At first I thought I was parked too steep and maybe low on oil. After fixing those variables, I still had low oil pressure at idle. About 20-30psi. I usually get 80-90ish. Anyways, I drained my oil although it had less than 1k miles on it since the last change and noticed I had the special glittery oil. It wasn't knocking or down on power at all and built pressure as the RPM's increased. Just the cold oil pressure/dirty oil were the only signs.
There goes any chance at selling the car. So I'm probably gonna end up holding onto it for a while as I rebuild it. Yesterday I got the engine out and on a stand.
Main #1, rod #3 and #4 all have some grooving. Some have pits which match the size of the gold/silver flakes in the pan.
I'm not experienced with engine failure so I'm trying to go about putting it back together the best way possible. I'm not sure what could be the cause of the failure and also what would be the proper procedure for putting it back together reliably would be.

The crankshaft does catch my nail a bit on the aforementioned journals but ever so slightly. I almost want to have a shop polish then plastigauge n send it. I am thinking about ordering a new one/junkyard trip. I have an ACL oil pump and I think it does it's job well. Should I open it up to repack it with grease/what should I look for as far as wear on it?
What're your thoughts?

Spoiler

[/spoi

 

[slo_eg8]

probably had crap go through the oiling system and leave behind debris

 

[drtalon123]

Cylinder walls look ok from underneath? Didnt lose a wrist pin lock, causing the pin to ride up and down against the cylinder did you?

Have you verified metal hasnt compromised your oil pressure sending unit, causing it to read low? Maybe the low pressure reading is perceived?

But with the size of glitter and metal chunks present, highly unlikely. Engine needs a tear down at this point to determine root cause. Take pump apart too for inspection, pull camshaft and inspect cam caps and journals, pull VTEC solenoid off and inspect screen.

Measure crankshaft journals with micrometer to see how far worn the crank got.

With the idle pressure being low, its likely oil clearances have worn too wide. Every journal type bearing needs to be inspected for wear, and oil clearance determined.

When you built this engine, did you have a machine shop do the rotating assembly? Or did you do it? Do you know what your oil clearances were at assembly time? Was the piston/rod combo balanced?

 

[Stefanzoh]

Cylinder walls look ok from underneath? Didnt lose a wrist pin lock, causing the pin to ride up and down against the cylinder did you?

Have you verified metal hasnt compromised your oil pressure sending unit, causing it to read low? Maybe the low pressure reading is perceived?

But with the size of glitter and metal chunks present, highly unlikely. Engine needs a tear down at this point to determine root cause. Take pump apart too for inspection, pull camshaft and inspect cam caps and journals, pull VTEC solenoid off and inspect screen.

Measure crankshaft journals with micrometer to see how far worn the crank got.

With the idle pressure being low, its likely oil clearances have worn too wide. Every journal type bearing needs to be inspected for wear, and oil clearance determined.

When you built this engine, did you have a machine shop do the rotating assembly? Or did you do it? Do you know what your oil clearances were at assembly time? Was the piston/rod combo balanced?

Cylinder walls look fine. No sign of any pins coming undone or anything. Have not taken the oil fittings apart yet but I will. Hope the contamination didn’t get that far. I’ll check the cam, vtec screen, and pump and report back. Block was put together by me and a friend/mentor in his garage. Not a clue as to what the clearances and specs were for anything on the engine anymore. And as for balanced rods/pistons we did not remove any material if that’s the kind of balancing you’re talking about. Appreciate your reply btw.
I fear it may be a bit difficult to find any tangible evidence or reason for failure. I had zero clue up until/no reasoning that would explain why this is happened. It must be a combination of factors such as less than favorable clearances, oil dilution, excess power (was retuned months ago).

 

[Stefanzoh]

Heres some more pics of what I've found.
So, crank is done and oil pump is done. It looks like the cam has some galling only on the intake lobes? That might not be from this incident though.

I would like some guidance detailed or not on what I should do from here on out @Talon... Is there any other items that may need inspecting for the rebuild?
Would you recommend splitting the block from the head and piston/rods out of the block and washing everything? I ran good oil through the car for a couple miles before pulling it out.
Pretty upsetting as it looks like I'll have to fork out some more cash for a crank/pump/shop work at the least. Maybe another ACL pump and cryotreat the gears?

Spoiler

 

[drtalon123]

If you say crank and pump is done, then definitely remove the head and fully disassemble. Tear it down to the rocker arms, pull out VTEC pins, wash every piece to rinse any metal flakes out, dry and reassemble what can be salvaged. Thoroughly wash and dry the rockershafts, lube with WD40 for storage.

Inspect the rocker arm pads. If you see cam lobe galling, the pads could have worn past their case hardening and started coming apart. Could be a source of metal causing your issues. If ANY pads are worn, dont reuse them! Find replacements that have good case hardening still, and no deep scratches.

Pull pistons and rods, inspect the skirts and area above compression ring for heavy scuffing/galling. If you see evidence of this, might want to confirm piston to wall clearance, make sure it matches what your piston OE has specified. You'll need access to micrometers and a bore gauge for this. Also remove the rings and wrist pins. You can give the piston/rod assemblies a good wash and dry, used compressed air to blow out between ringlands and any small holes. Inspect the wrist pin bores, make sure the wrist pin bosses in the piston arent toast. The pins are usually fine, and if bosses and pins are smooth/clean, you can reuse. You can also reuse your ARP rod bolts, they usually need to go through a few torque cycles before they perma-stretch beyond .001", at which point you need to replace.

If cylinders are in ok shape visually, check the deck for warpage. Cant remember if you went CSS or not, if you did, the deck surface is likely fine, but use a straight edge to confirm. If it is, you dont have to get it decked at the machine shop. You can just run a 3 stone hone from harbor freight on a drill dripping/slathered in ATF to rehatch the cylinders. Watch a couple youtube videos on this, its easy to do. Then wash the block, girdle and all oil passages really well, use high pressure soap and water with a pressure washer/at a car wash, air dry everything with compressed air, then lube the cylinders with WD40 for storage.

If the camshaft journals and journal bores are not galled to shit, measure and spec them. You'll need telescoping bore gauges and micrometers for this. Make sure all cam bores and journals are in spec, slightly outside service limit is OK, just keep this in mind since depending on your crankshaft main/rod oil clearances, you may need to run a heavier weight oil to make up for potential oil pressure loss through wider clearances.

If head cam bores are OK, wash/dry/lube head the same way as the block. You dont need to remove valves or springs, just make sure they get compressed air dried and lubed with WD40.

Also check the cylinder head gasket surface with a straight edge. If still flat and in spec, you wont need to get remachined. Otherwise, you'll need to have them cut it back flat. Your head studs are also OK to reuse, so long as you didnt go crazy over the ARP recommended torque spec (like, no more than 5ft/lbs), otherwise replace them if unsure/unwilling to take a chance.

Lets get a closer look at that cam lobe galling when you get it out. My OE regrind showed some very small pitting, similar in appearance to what you show, likely from porosity of metal rather than galling, but the holes were very small, and the rocker pads were fine. Here's an example pic of those lobe pits from my last tear down when I last had the cam out, i just reinstalled and sent it again. It's still fine even now lol

After all this inspection, measuring, reconditioning and reusing where you can, you'll then need a new oil pump, crankshaft, rings, spirolocs for the wrist pins if your pistons use these (you can reuse c clips, dont reuse spirolocs), head gasket, all other gaskets and seals, VTEC solenoid gasket.

Once you get a crank and bearings, you'll have to inspect oil clearances on mains and rods. You'll need access to a bore gauge and plastigage to measure oil clearances. Once you know your main/rod oil clearances, you'll be able to know what type/weight oil to run for your situation.

When you get to this point, or get stuck at any point, just hit us back up. Hopefully you're able to source a good Z6/A6 crank!

 

[Oldcivicjoe]

A how too book in one post 😃

 

[Stefanzoh]

If you say crank and pump is done, then definitely remove the head and fully disassemble. Tear it down to the rocker arms, pull out VTEC pins, wash every piece to rinse any metal flakes out, dry and reassemble what can be salvaged. Thoroughly wash and dry the rockershafts, lube with WD40 for storage.

Inspect the rocker arm pads. If you see cam lobe galling, the pads could have worn past their case hardening and started coming apart. Could be a source of metal causing your issues. If ANY pads are worn, dont reuse them! Find replacements that have good case hardening still, and no deep scratches.

Pull pistons and rods, inspect the skirts and area above compression ring for heavy scuffing/galling. If you see evidence of this, might want to confirm piston to wall clearance, make sure it matches what your piston OE has specified. You'll need access to micrometers and a bore gauge for this. Also remove the rings and wrist pins. You can give the piston/rod assemblies a good wash and dry, used compressed air to blow out between ringlands and any small holes. Inspect the wrist pin bores, make sure the wrist pin bosses in the piston arent toast. The pins are usually fine, and if bosses and pins are smooth/clean, you can reuse. You can also reuse your ARP rod bolts, they usually need to go through a few torque cycles before they perma-stretch beyond .001", at which point you need to replace.

If cylinders are in ok shape visually, check the deck for warpage. Cant remember if you went CSS or not, if you did, the deck surface is likely fine, but use a straight edge to confirm. If it is, you dont have to get it decked at the machine shop. You can just run a 3 stone hone from harbor freight on a drill dripping/slathered in ATF to rehatch the cylinders. Watch a couple youtube videos on this, its easy to do. Then wash the block, girdle and all oil passages really well, use high pressure soap and water with a pressure washer/at a car wash, air dry everything with compressed air, then lube the cylinders with WD40 for storage.

If the camshaft journals and journal bores are not galled to shit, measure and spec them. You'll need telescoping bore gauges and micrometers for this. Make sure all cam bores and journals are in spec, slightly outside service limit is OK, just keep this in mind since depending on your crankshaft main/rod oil clearances, you may need to run a heavier weight oil to make up for potential oil pressure loss through wider clearances.

If head cam bores are OK, wash/dry/lube head the same way as the block. You dont need to remove valves or springs, just make sure they get compressed air dried and lubed with WD40.

Also check the cylinder head gasket surface with a straight edge. If still flat and in spec, you wont need to get remachined. Otherwise, you'll need to have them cut it back flat. Your head studs are also OK to reuse, so long as you didnt go crazy over the ARP recommended torque spec (like, no more than 5ft/lbs), otherwise replace them if unsure/unwilling to take a chance.

Lets get a closer look at that cam lobe galling when you get it out. My OE regrind showed some very small pitting, similar in appearance to what you show, likely from porosity of metal rather than galling, but the holes were very small, and the rocker pads were fine. Here's an example pic of those lobe pits from my last tear down when I last had the cam out, i just reinstalled and sent it again. It's still fine even now lol
View attachment 144499


After all this inspection, measuring, reconditioning and reusing where you can, you'll then need a new oil pump, crankshaft, rings, spirolocs for the wrist pins if your pistons use these (you can reuse c clips, dont reuse spirolocs), head gasket, all other gaskets and seals, VTEC solenoid gasket.

Once you get a crank and bearings, you'll have to inspect oil clearances on mains and rods. You'll need access to a bore gauge and plastigage to measure oil clearances. Once you know your main/rod oil clearances, you'll be able to know what type/weight oil to run for your situation.

When you get to this point, or get stuck at any point, just hit us back up. Hopefully you're able to source a good Z6/A6 crank!

My man talon dropping knowledge. Exactly what I was looking for. I’ve sourced a crank already from a local Honda shop so I’m set there. Budgeting for the rest of the items like pump and head gasket, and other things I made need. This may take until summer time to be ready but I will absolutely take photos and keep active on this thread. Yesterday i quickly pulled the rocker assembly to look at the cam closer. it looks like just the intake or exhaust lobes have the galling?
Whatever lobes don’t use vtec, embarassing I don’t know that off tops at this stage lol.

 

[drtalon123]

I’ve sourced a crank already from a local Honda shop so I’m set there.

How are you cali guys magically always able to find Z6 cranks lmao. It's been my experience so far, 100% true, that between you and @Oldcivicjoe, Z6 cranks are like dust bunnies under couches found in every california family home.

Yesterday i quickly pulled the rocker assembly to look at the cam closer. it looks like just the intake or exhaust lobes have the galling?
Whatever lobes don’t use vtec, embarassing I don’t know that off tops at this stage lol.

Exhaust lobes, yeah the galling is pretty significant. What do the rocker arm pads look like? These guys:

 

[Oldcivicjoe]

How are you cali guys magically always able to find Z6 cranks lmao. It's been my experience so far, 100% true, that between you and @Oldcivicjoe, Z6 cranks are like dust bunnies under couches found in every california family home.

Cali was the original home of the ricer, and the 92-95 civic was the cheapest way to get vtec and make cool noises, and at that time it was extremely affordable brand spanking new off the lot, even on a radio shack / best buy pay check. So now I literally see one of 3 civics in the scrap yard with a sohc vtec in it, sadly more and more are coming up with torched journals though 😕

 

[transzex]

Local O'reily's warehouse has a A6 large snout/Z6 crank in stock with matched bearings.

 

[Stefanzoh]

How are you cali guys magically always able to find Z6 cranks lmao. It's been my experience so far, 100% true, that between you and @Oldcivicjoe, Z6 cranks are like dust bunnies under couches found in every california family home.

What do the rocker arm pads look like?

They're not as plentiful as you might think lol. I paid $350 for this one. The one I just ruined I paid $160 for a year ago.
I was on my way to the junkyard Tuesday to check out two z6 cars they had and take a crank home. But I figured $350 was worth it considering the time I'd spend on my day off on my back in the mud, taking a gamble with clearances.

I'll get back to ya with photos of the rocker pads as soon as I can.

Cali was the original home of the ricer, and the 92-95 civic was the cheapest way to get vtec and make cool noises, and at that time it was extremely affordable brand spanking new off the lot, even on a radio shack / best buy pay check. So now I literally see one of 3 civics in the scrap yard with a sohc vtec in it, sadly more and more are coming up with torched journals though 😕

Where in Cali/Socal are you located?

 

[Stefanzoh]

So heres a video of those pads:

Nothing seems to immediately worry me in that area. Going over the cam journals on the head and assembly cover (not the actual camshaft) they do seem a little worrysome, my photos above you can see wear. The cam itself also worries me with the amount of galling on it. I ran the car before pulling it out with some fresh oil and filter and drove it maybe 20-30 miles. I do believe that there is little to no shavings left floating around. I say this because I'm hesitant to have to buy another headgasket/risking having out of spec headstuds. I know you guys wouldn't recommend it, but I do have the urge to just wipe everything down with the head still sealed to the block, put the OEM camshaft/new crank/oil pump on there and send it. Thoughts there? I can't really afford a stretch gauge or nice micrometer/bore gauges, nor am I able to borrow them at the moment. I can buy a precision straight edge and DIY honing stones though.

Should I clean and reuse the whole head or perhaps reuse the OEM camshaft or source a whole new Y8 head?
It's okay to plastigauge mains 1,2,3,4,5 all at the same time right?
I plan on using these clearances for reference, seem right? Main Bearing Clearance; Rod Bearing Clearance - Honda Civic Service Manual [Page 138]
Do you have any clever ways to setup an easy/cheap home parts washing station? Maybe a series of 5gal buckets with hot water and solutions and a bristle brush? I don't have access to a real deal shop washer anymore.