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IIRC Bisimoto got upset when he found out people did a group buy on a copy of his header.
Maybe if he produced a good quality product, people wouldn't have to buy copies or go else where, just seeing way to many issues to deal with the headers, mostly fabrication issues I.E welds and fitment.
Broken Bisimoto D-Series Header - Honda-Tech
Lol bisi shit is nice but not nice enough for the price

bisi springs < kms

bisi cam < delta cam

Etc....
RCautoworks - PM me a price on a Header for my B-Series I like the Bisi knockoff if available for B18/B20 I am using this for Summer driving and Road racing Track which requires lots of mid to high RPM. If not available convince me which one to buy and why thanks.

BOB I love your services this is not directed at you.


***BEGIN RANT/
As stated its great for those that do the R&D and create great products but in all actuality if I was sending my entire motor to him for him to build me a header specifically for my application/flow of my engine I would spend the money.

After you make something great everyone copies it its the way it is with anything.
If he wanted to protect it copyright that specific design.

As for that header cracking well it is told that recommended installation requires a flexpipe not included...

I have a $400 DC sports JDM 4-1 thats like 10 years old that is rotted out. I am tired of paying exorbitant amounts of money for products that are disposable after 5 years.

Look at Skunk2/Ground Control same crap practically invented the coil over sleeve for Hondas now you have 100 companies selling them for $50 and skunk2 still trying to get $200 out of them.

Considering Skunk2 Has all there parts made in China from 10 year old kids in smelting forges at $1 per hour they can afford to drop prices....

Same goes for Skunk2 blank billet cam shafts first in the Honda industry... Then Crower then everyone else starts getting them and grinding them most of them if not all coming from Overseas...

If you don't want to get mad about someone making a copy then you should compete financially. /END RANT***
 
If you don't want to get mad about someone making a copy then you should compete financially. /END RANT***
I wasn't going to say much till I saw that comment.
But now I need to Rant.

Ive gone thru the same thing. As in spending a lot of time effort and money to design something only to have it copied.

Your comment obviously shows you have never ever created or designed anything in your life.

I dont know how Bisi Designs his stuff. But this is how I do mine. First a project is made in a simulator. you then study the wave dynamics inside the engine based on RPM and Exhaust design. You spend hundreds of man hours doing this over and over again till you find the combination that makes the most power. Then you start to build them and another round of testing starts.
It can take 4-6 months to design a header the right way. So by the time its done I have at least 3-4 months of my life invested in the design.

It takes all off 1 day to copy the design.
And the guys doing to the copy. Work are uneducated semi skilled welders.

So what happens now.

a. I have realised that people will copy. Its just how it is.
b. There is no point investing time and money to design something that will be copied. For every fast engine / exhaust I have designed people who just copy my work sell 10 with zero time invested in R&D and design.
c. So now I no longer invest a lot of time in Design. Unless its for my own motor. And I know it wont be copied.
d. Only special customers who I know can be trusted get the good stuff. The rest can go buy cheap copies off what ever is in fashion.
e. There is no point filing a patent because stuff still gets copied. You just make it easier for them by filing a patent. A Patent Lawyer told me this. Never patent your best ideas. Because they will get copied. Instead just keep how you do it to your self.
f. Nodays anything I sell on is only 50% as good was I know how to make it.
That 100% is kept only for my own motors and select trusted customers.

Each builder finds his own way to combat this problem.

Also realize that this attitude hurts the community because you no longer have good minds working on new innovations.

Im no saint I use a pirated s/w and copy music. So in the end its all about figuring out the best way to protect your work.

Lastly no matter how good the copy. They can never get it to match the original product. Best I have seen is they will get it to 80%.
 
the difference between the Original and the copy is that the creator of the original loves what hes doing, pushing the sport forward. the copy is just there to make money
 
the difference between the Original and the copy is that the creator of the original loves what hes doing, pushing the sport forward. the copy is just there to make money
wow really so the guy doing it for the sport doesn't make money everyone does if not they wouldn't have a business please dude just stop. you think real companies are making money messing with the d-series crowd your sadly mistaken. the problem with the d-series crowd is they dont like to pay to play give them a copy or any product that performs and its cheap then they will buy it. I mean sure its fucked up no doubt but you want to protect your investment you patent it . business is business people need to make a living . the company starts on the passion for the sport but to keep hope alive you need money.
 
Your comment obviously shows you have never ever created or designed anything in your life.
I have been in this sport for 17+ years and developed ideas and tons of information spreading it freely as knowledge to see someone with money bring it into fruition.

As a matter of fact not naming names I developed and designed several things to better the sport and there is a company selling 2 of them right now making a 200% profit on them on a daily basis.

Another company I supplied them with everything to better there line and all the knowledge and they sell 6 different products making bank.

The only thing that bothers me is supplying information to people and they take all the credit when they were clueless from the beginning.

Bisi makes a great product and its power proven from a engine to engine basis. The cost of his header IF it was built and designed for each engine would be fair but he sells them at high price for a universal application. If he was to ask for flow rates ect and built to spec on an engine I would pay for the product at full price. I would think he has gained back his money in R&D for the product by now. So now it is a matter of keeping the price up.

BACK TO SUPPORTING OUR VENDORS
 
Discussion starter · #35 ·
As I stated before, if anyone actually digs back a little you'll see that people are having issues with the bisi header, enough for me not to keep them in stock to sell them to only have them crack or not fit properly. Also as far as I know Bisi didn't even create the design nor does he weld them, it seems like he just payed for the design to be made and to have them not sell it to any other company.

Post Your Race Header (Whatever It Is) - Page 46 - Honda-Tech
 
Bisi makes a great product and its power proven from a engine to engine basis. The cost of his header IF it was built and designed for each engine would be fair but he sells them at high price for a universal application. If he was to ask for flow rates ect and built to spec on an engine I would pay for the product at full price. I would think he has gained back his money in R&D for the product by now. So now it is a matter of keeping the price up.

BACK TO SUPPORTING OUR VENDORS
i agree, support the vendors, Bob is always well spoken, has a good feel for the scene and the people on this forum and has every right to sell the products he thinks will best work for both of us. and bob is honest about his parts. that cant be forgotten.

with that being said i have bought a lot of bisimoto products. :yes:

i filled out several detailed forms from bisimoto of my motor and build intentions before hand. they WILL make a custom profile cam for you, and they will custom adjust the design of the header as well. you just need to communicate that to them.

if you provide the real info an engineer needs aka flow rates, prior dyno pull results, diameters, fuel, compressions, operating tempratures, quench/squish, clearances, RPM ranges desired etc then they will have no problem making what you need. a lot of people dont want to go through the work it takes to produce the info that is needed to fabricate a seriously optimized set up.

regardless, there are good products in this thread and good info to have when buying them. different strokes for different folks.
 
Discussion starter · #37 ·
i agree, support the vendors, Bob is always well spoken, has a good feel for the scene and the people on this forum and has every right to sell the products he thinks will best work for both of us. and bob is honest about his parts. that cant be forgotten.
Very well put, my business was built on honesty, that's what keeps us going. :bigok:
 
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