Honda D Series Forum banner

Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 233 Posts

·
the hard-parker
Joined
·
4,257 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
berettagtz117 and I decided that it would be worth this site's time to do a thread on a B swap vs. a D. So we'll be working on this for you guys to give you a whole lay-out of what it might really cost you to switch to a B. Please no one else post in this until it is done. If you do, I will delete it. Thanks guys!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,585 Posts
Along the lines I will put Prices of parts/ labor ect... Now this is going to be a General Idea nothing of course is going to be exact because its just not possible.

Also these are general prices of swaps and info, this is not including the price of aftermarket parts, labor, shipping and anything else you might need!!!

Basics of Engine Swaps: what fits in what

Overview

In order to properly cover every aspect this section will be broken down into many sections. First, its important to decide what you’re goals are. If you’re interested in running 15 second quarter miles without hassle or complication then finding a D16 is probably your best bet. Some of us are interested in running 11 and 12 second quarter miles. For this type of performance it’s important to plan every detail so that the engine is capable and reliable when asked to perform. Another part of planning that should be done before the swap begins is whether or the engine will be naturally aspirated or have forced induction. These are all questions that need to be answered before the swap so that you’re satisfied when everything is complete.
Now we all no that in able to run a D16 motor NA you should pretty much show to get that much power and Speed you are not going to Be able to just drop it in a 90 Crx Si and run it daily on 91 pump gas. So lets just get that out of the way for all "Fast and The Furious" Believers.

Finding the Proper Engine:

There are many engine choices for each vehicle so we’ll cover all of them. First it’s important to understand that On Board Diagnostics play a large role in which engines are easiest and recommended. All Honda’s 1991 and earlier are considered OBD 0. This means that the engines don’t utilize any oxygen sensors and have little in the way of emissions control. Next there are OBD 1 engines that are found in all cars from 1992-1995. These vehicles have traditionally been the best platform for the most “factory-like” hybrids. Finally, anything from 1996-1998 is OBD 2. 1999-2000 is OBD 2b. It’s also important to remember that its only legal to swap in engines of the same or newer OBD series. That is to say that an OBD2 engine can be placed into a 1988 CRX legally and without many wiring problems. Consequently its illegal in most states to use OBD 0 engines in cars that should have OBD1 or OBD2 power plants. Of course there are people who disregard these laws and regulations but its not recommended or necessarily that easy.

4th Generation:

1. ZC,JDM D15B, D16Z6/Y8 : Completely Bolt-In Swap. On the Z6 and Y8 you will have to switch out engine mount from factory EF engine over to New z6/y8 Engine. Now you can Easily get one of these engines if you know your basic resources.
Transmission: Use ZC/ Now for Tranny of course just use 88-91 Si Tranny for best Gearing. You can use Dx 5spd but you do have different final Drive so thats why alot of people try to get there hands on SI tranny.
Shift Linkage: Use stock Civic/CRX shift linkage
Axles: Stock Civic/CRX
Wiring: Retain stock harness
Upper Radiator Hose: stock
Lower Radiator Hose: stock
Throttle Cable: stock
*There may be clearance issues with the ZC, either a new hood, trimming of the old hood or trimming the valve cover is required.
Now for prices of these to go For instance In your 90 Civic Si.
SOHC ZC 120HP $390 plus shipping For complete longblock
DOHC ZC 129HP $525 plus shipping For complete longblock
JDM D15B Vtec 130HP $435 plus shipping complete longblock
USDM D16Z6/Y8 Depending on who you know you can usually get a longblock for around $400 pretty easy or around 800 or so for complete engine/Tranny w/ all accessories.
Now being that you have EF You really have no use for the Hydro Tranny so you can definately get rid of that for around 250 easily if it is in good working condition. Along w/ all the extra parts you will have you can easily sell them to make money back or just keep them incase you ever need to replace something.




2. B16A: 160Hp Full engine swap w/ tranny $1499.99 plus shipping
Mount kit required Hasport EFB1 399.99 plus shipping
Transmission: S1, J1, A1, Y1 or YS1 comes w/ engine ordered
Shift Linkage: Need adjustable shift linkage from Hasport or shortened shift linkage from 90-93 Integra Hasport linkage around $250
Axles: B16A Axles usually come w/ swap but always fukked up anyways.
Around $70 Apiece
Wiring: DX, LX, and Standard (dual point injection) models the wiring needs to be modified for port injection first. To use PR3 or PW0 four wires need to be added, VTEC, VTEC oil pressure, knock sensor and second O2.
Upper Radiator Hose: 92 GSR, trim to fit $15 from autopart store
Lower Radiator Hose: 90 Integra, trim to fit $15 from autopart store
Throttle Cable: Use oem
Clutch Cable: Stock
Air Conditioning: Use Hasport AC bracket with stock AC compressor.Not really needed who does a engine swap and keeps AC /??
Chassis Prep: Make a dent on the left-hand frame rail for alternator pully clearance.
Emissions: Purge cutoff solenoid valve needs to be Teed into the fuel pressure regulator for vacuum source.
Now just too do the old plain Jane b16 w/ no upgrades and hoping you wont have to by miscellanous parts "WHich You will", the cost is around $2318.99 not counting shipping and also assuming that you are doing swap yourself or w/ some of your buddies for some beer.

3. B18A: Non Vtec 145 HP Engine w/ Tranny complete $2200
Mount kit required Hasport EFB1 mounts $399.99
Transmission: S1, J1, A1, Y1 or YS1 Comes w/ engine swap
Shift Linkage: Need adjustable shift linkage from Hasport or shortened shift linkage from 90-93 Integra Hasport $250
Axles: B18B Axles $70 Each from autoparts store
Wiring: For Si, EX, and HF (port injection) models modify the engine harness to fit. DX, LX, and Standard (dual point injection) models the wiring needs to be modified for port injection. Custom wiring harnesses are available for dual point injection applications from Hasport.
Upper Radiator Hose: 92 GSR, trim to fit $15
Lower Radiator Hose: 90 Integra, trim to fit $15
Throttle Cable: OEM
Clutch Cable: Stock
Air Conditioning: Use Hasport AC bracket with stock AC compressor.
Chassis Prep: Make a dent on the left-hand frame rail for alternator pully clearance.
Well for this Swap your looking around $3019.99 like said before this is not including shipping and handling, labor fees and whatever else you might need to finish swap.

OBD1-OBD2 Engine Swaps into 89-91 Civic/CRX

To install an OBD1-OBD2 engine into your 4th Generation Civic/CRX the following adjustments will need to be made. First, if your car has dual point injection a conversion will need to be made to port injection. All Integra's 1994 and up and Civic's 1992 and up all use hydraulic transmissions. Therefore its not compatible with 4th Gen Civic's because these vehicles have cable transmissions. To complete the swap a B-series cable transmission will need to be used or a cable-hydro transmission conversion will need to be made. The left side bracket needs to be changed to a 1990-1993 Integra bracket.
For the ECU, it is best to use the ECU which belongs with the engine. Several wiring adjustments will need to be made to make the engine run correctly.
For LS-VTEC's, CRVTEC's and other Frankenstein's it is easiest to use the ECU that corresponds to the distributor and head. There are also reprogrammed ECU's which can be considered.

4. B16A2 $2250 plus shipping/B16B $3850 plus shipping:
Mount kit required Hasport EFB1 399.99
Transmission: Now with these swaps you will not be able to use the tranny that is provided w/ engine because it is Hydrolic, so you will need to fork out another $500-1000 for a Cable tranny depending on what one you get.
ECU: B16A ECU PR3/PWO
Axles: With a small amount of modification, the axles that come with the engines being transplanted (excluding the B20 engines) will work perfectly in most cases. The axles are from a 94 or later car, the left-hand transmission seal, the one for the intermediate shaft, should be changed for one from a 94 Integra, p/n #91205-PL3-A01.
Shift Linkage: Hasport custom linkage p/n #l88-B16-10 or shortened 90-93 Integra linkage. $250
Wiring: For these engines, you will want the injectors, ECU and distributor from the 89-91 B16A. If your car is an Si, HF, EX the stock harness can be easily modified to fit the engine. Then use Hasport conversion harness p/n #W88-Si-VTEC for the additional wires needed to run VTEC.
Upper Radiator Hose: 92 GSR, trim to fit
Lower Radiator Hose: 90 Integra, trim to fit
Throttle Cable: OEM
Clutch Cable: Stock
Air Conditioning: Use Hasport AC bracket with stock AC compressor.
Chassis Prep: Make a dent on the left-hand frame rail for alternator pully clearance.
Now for these swaps depending on which one you get your are going to easily pay around $4k or more.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,585 Posts
B18C 180HP $3149 plus shipping/B18C5 200HP $4100
Any of the cable clutch operated B-series transmission including Japanese or American market S1, J1, A1, Y1 or YS1.
Axles: With a small amount of modification, the axles that come with the engines being transplanted (excluding the B20 engines) will work perfectly in most cases.If the axles are from a 94 or later car, the left-hand transmission seal, the one for the intermediate shaft, should be changed for one from a 94 Integra, p/n #91205-PL3-A01. Around $70 a side
Shift Linkage: Hasport custom linkage p/n #l88-B16-10 or shortened 90-93 Integra linkage. $250
Wiring: For this engine, you will want the injectors and distributor from the 89-91 B16A. If your car is an Si, HF, EX the stock harness can be easily modified to fit the engine. Then the VTEC and air intake bypass can be hooked up with the addition of only two wire to the ECU and one to ignition power. For dual point injected motors, Hasport sells a conversion harness to help.
Upper Radiator Hose: 94+ GSR, trim to fit $15
Lower Radiator Hose: 90 Integra, trim to fit $15
Throttle Cable: 94+ GSR or Type R
Clutch Cable: Stock
Air Conditioning: Use Hasport AC bracket with stock AC compressor.
Chassis Prep: Make a dent on the left-hand frame rail for alternator pully clearance.
Now these are alot more complicated engine swap of them all, you need a deep pocket of course, these will run you around $4600- up.

5th Generation

1. B16A2/3: Completely bolt-in Swap, VTEC needs to be wired, SIR II, Hasport shift linkage. Del Sol VTEC for the del sol Roughly around $3k or more...
2. B18B: Completely bolt-in swap, SIR II, Hasport shift linkage. Del Sol VTEC for the del sol $3k or more
3. B17A: Completely bolt-in swap, cable-hydro transmission kit(not recommended) or hydraulic b-series transmission, VTEC needs to be wired. $3300-up
4. B18C1: Completely bolt-in swap, VTEC needs to be wired. $4k-up
5. B18C5: Completely bolt-in swap, OBD conversion, VTEC needs to be wired. $5k-up
6. B16B: Completely bolt-in swap, OBD conversion, VTEC needs to be wired.
$4500-up
7. H22A: Mount kit required, Hasport shift linkage, VTEC needs to be wired. $3500-up
8. B16A: Not recommended! Too much work, more costly compared to B16A2/3's.
9. D16Z6: Completely bolt in, VTEC needs to be wired. $800 for complete swap
10. D16Y8: Completely bolt in, VTEC needs to be wired. $800 For complete swap

6th Generation

1. B18C1: Completely bolt-in swap, VTEC needs to be wired. $4k-up
2. B16A2: Completely bolt in swap, VTEC needs to be wired. $3k-up
3. B16A3: Completely bolt-in swap, VTEC needs to be wired, OBD Conversion. $3200-up
4. B18C5: Completely bolt-in swap, VTEC needs to be wired. $5k-up
5. B18B1: Completely bolt-in swap. $3k-up
6. B16B: Completely bolt-in swap, VTEC needs to be wired. $4500-up
7. H22A: Mount kit required, Hasport shift linkage, VTEC needs to be wired. $3500-up
8. D16Z6: Completely bolt-in, OBD conversion, VTEC needs to be wired. $800 for complete swap
9. D16Y8: Completely bolt-in, VTEC needs to be wired. $800 for complete swap

The "Mini-Me" is a hybrid engine that produces around 135hp. This setup is usually made from a DX(1.5liter) bottom end and D16Z6 or D16Y8 VTEC head. Because of the 1.5-liter's excellent rod-stroke ratio this little beast will make power to 8000rpm. Another interesting characteristic is the increased compression that results from this setup. Overall this engine is great for those who have some experience with engine building and can acquire the VTEC head for a good price.

This is just a rough estimate of all swaps possible if I missed any important factors dont be afraid to let me know!
Motor Prices were taken from www.hmotorsonline.com
Hasport parts were taken from www.hasport.com
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,585 Posts
Now as you have seen a ideal idea of what it will cost to do that Big B/H series swap is it really worth it for thousands more?? No for most reasons and Yes to some.
Reason why not to spend all that money for those bigger swaps.
-Its alot more work to get it in there, then just throwing a mini-me together or just swapping that 1.5 DPFI to a bigger or better D swap that is available.
Anything that is better than that 1.5 DPFI is going to be better and alot faster.
Now you are maybe thinking choices?

Just by converting that 1.5 to MPFI is going to help alot then adding a SI cam is going to be that much better. Now I am not going to go over every engine possible because that is what this site is for so just use the "SEARCH" button to find out what is good for you.
-There is alot more potential for the D series than alot of people think, you just have to sit down figure out what your goal is.
Is it to beat everyone one the street? Not possible because there is always someone faster.
Do you want to be fast but reliable at the same time? Yes now that is a good goal to go w/.
Well Instance lets take my Car for example 93 Civic VX hatch from the factory it came w/ the week D15z1 which was rated @ 92hp. Now what I did was research my possiblities do I go B series or Just stay w/ D series and swap a bigger better motor in there. So what I did was picked up a D16Z6 out of 93 Si that was totalled @ 72k on the car bought the engine for $400 and started w/ my swap now in the process I bought aftermarket parts that I wanted so I wouldnt have to take it apart once I got it all in and running. This is what I bought and what I acheived.
ACT HDSS clutch package $230 ACT Streetlite Flywheel $190, DC header $230, Skunk 2 Manifold $230, J's fake intake $70, JG engine Dynamics Cam VT80 $50 used but in good condition, Eldebrock Cam Gear $90, custom 2 1/4 exhaust $75. Now with that setup alone I ran 14.6 w/ full interior on bald Kuhmo tires which help me spin thru 3rd down track. Now I would have to say that is pretty good for the money I put into it. Now that is about $1565 including the Engine!!! Now I did all the work myself so I guess labor would have went through the roof if I had paid someone to do it, But I didnt.

Now lets look at it if I did the same setup but went B series...
JDM B16A2 motor complete $2250 plus shipping $300 shipping
ACT HDSS clutch $330 ACT Streetlite Flywheel $230, J's Intake $70, DC Header $$320, Skunk Manifold $280, JG engine dynamics cams $750, Aem Cam Gears $200, Exhaust $75. WOW $4805 Fukk that noise. Now what would have I accomplished out of all that money spent Maybe a high 13 or low 14 sec car?? Why? Now if I take that $3240 that is saved from not doing that swap I can do soooo much more too my engine to eat that engine alive, and at the same time make my car look better, ride better or whatever it may be.
Now even if I was too blow my motor or rebuild it it would be alot cheaper than redoing a B motor.

Now w/ over 3k left to spend in my pocket since I didnt go B series I can easily build a turbo kit to put my car in the low 13's and even 12's if done right. And even better that can be reached w/ out touching the bottom end of the motor.

Now the choice is up too you whether or not you want to leave us Dseries brothers for the B/H series Sisters, but this is just to show you what can be done w/ what you have or can have if you just do the right research and build you motor right. You can easily build a 14 or 13 sec Na D series for a good price comparing that to the price of B/H series Build. Same goes for a Forced Induction it Can easily be done to make your little 1.5/1.6 Sohc do 13/12 second passes down the strip or even the street. Dont let your friends or whoever might influece you try to tell you that D series aint shit because there wrong, Its nothing like going to the track and being one of the only Civics left w/ a D-series and desimating all of them, and they look at you or they dont look at you because they take all damn day to figure out why there cars are so much slower. That is all I need to make another day @ the track worth it. :)

The one they thought that couldnt but did!
 

·
the hard-parker
Joined
·
4,257 Posts
Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
alright, here's my contribution to this thread. Now we see all of the prices, and how steep they really are for us to get a swap. My mission is now put our point into an example to show you just how nuts it is to buy a B swap unless you're looking for an all-motor track MONSTER!!
now this will take me a bit, but I am going to give you links to the prices I find. You spent 4000 dollars on an ek swap for a b18c1. You are sitting at 180hp. I kept my d16y8 in my ek. I am sitting at 130hp. AT a valvetrain loss of 20%, you have 144whp. I have 104whp. Okay, here comes the real example. I decide to go turbo with my car. Now in a sense of fair competition, we'll spend the same amount, and see where we end up. So you spent 4k, I have 4k to spend. Let's go:
First off, turbo. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7953927070&category=33742 Starting price is 200.00. and incase this link dies, the turbo is a t3/t4 stage III with .42 a/r compressor to .48 turbine. So we'll say 200.00 for the turbo.
next up, Manifold. http://www.crpturbo.com/ this has a long manifold for 275.00. while it's not absolutely beautiful, it more than does the job. so we'll put 275.00 for that.
now BOV. http://www.nopionline.com/nopistore/dsp_part_detail.cfm?vmakeid=001&vmodelid=100&vcatyear=9999&vnopinum=345%2B0033&vTitle=*Performance%20Products-Turbo%20Components-Blow-Off%20Valves-GREDDY
http://www.nopionline.com/nopistore/dsp_part_detail.cfm?vmakeid=001&vmodelid=100&vcatyear=9999&vnopinum=345%2B0001&vTitle=*Performance%20Products-Turbo%20Components-Blow-Off%20Valves-HKS I found both of these for 200.00. Now you can find one for MUCH less, but these I felt were quality, and can handle the kind of power we might want to go for. Price is at 200.00
next up, I.C. johnnyracecar.com and I chose the 6", which has a price tag of 190.00 while cars are putting down 350+whp. so add 190.00 to the list.
with that, I.C. Piping http://www.kteller.com/store/index.php/cPath/26_112
there are cheaper solutions, but i chose this one. I added up about 145.00 or so for intercooler piping. you can get it MUCH cheaper, but we'll go with a bit of blang factor.
here's oil lines www.stealthmodeperformance.com 75.00. 'nuff said.
now fuel management uberdata or turboedit along with 450cc's. the 450's are 50.00 and uberdata is free. have some chipping, maybe 40 bucks or so. so 90.00 overall.
and misc. 57.50 which includes hosing, vacuum lines, tee's, and gaskets. so 57.50 for that stuff.
and finally, a guage so say 20.00 at autozone.
now let's add all of that up:
200.00
275.00
200.00
190.00
145.00
075.00
090.00
057.50
020.00
=1212.50. and this is not exactly a ghetto set-up, but you could go much nicer.
so I have 2747.50 left to buy more parts. well, let me buy more parts then!
Let's get some rods and pistons.
rods http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7952696573&category=46098 350.00 for these rods.
Pistons http://www.nopionline.com/nopistore/dsp_part_detail.cfm?vmakeid=001&vmodelid=100&vcatyear=9999&vnopinum=133%2B2509&vTitle=ENGINE%20Specific-HONDA/ACURA-D16Y8%20SOHC%20VTEC%201.6L%204cyl%20(CIVIC%20EX)-Pistons%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20Pistons here we have 9:1 srp pistons that are 367.75, so we'll so 370.00.

Now we've spent 720 dollars.
take that from 2747.50 and we now have 2027.50. Let's keep going for a little extra sake.
here's a Clutch http://www.clutchcityonline.com/honda_racing_civic.htm#92
for 246.00. let's throw in an
lsd http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7953907659&category=33731&sspagename=WDVW this is an obx helical lsd for 375.00. with both of those, we've spent another
621.00. take that from 2027.50 and you have 1406.50 that you can spend as you so choose!!!!

So, you have 180hp, about 144whp. I put on my turbo, clutch, and lsd and decide I want about 275whp. Which is more than doable on that set-up. So I have 131whp more than you do, and you still have to do your turbo to catch-up!!!!! and these prices I found online people. That means you can always find a better deal!!! So next time someone says "if you want power, go B" just point them to this.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,158 Posts
:TU: for all the hard work, but after this comes the even harder part

getting the newbs to read this before posting and asking the question!!!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,585 Posts
Thanks guys! Ya that is true SilentWrath.... My guess is if they do I will just paste this in there post and let them figure it out themselfes.
 
J

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Just thought I'd add to this with something I just found while I was bored. Back when I thought I wanted a B swapped in I was on hondaswap.com and the site they all recommended to buy the engine from was hmotosonline.com. Well I just went there cause I still had the link in the favorites and here's some interesting figures for all those swap happy people to consider.

Now sure you're going to have the initial swap cost but we all know that even honda engines break and when they do you have to buy a new one. If you have to buy another B (because that's what you broke) then you have all of berettagtz117's info to buy another B but if you had stuck with the mighty D you'd be looking at these prices for another D:

88-91 SOHC ZC longblock
120Hp 100Trq 9.1 compression (JDM)
$ 390.00 Plus shipping and handling.

30019 - D15B SOHC VTEC Longblock
130Hp 92-95 Civic VTi (JDM)
$ 435.00 Plus shipping and handling.

30020 - ZC 88-91 (Civic) DOHC Long Block
129Hp 106Trq 9.6 Compression(JDM)
$ 525.00 Plus shipping and handling.

And just for comparison here's a couple B Prices from the same site:

30007 - B18B 94-01 (LS) Complete Change Over
145Hp 127Trq 9.4 Compression (JDM)
142Hp 127Trq 9.2 Compression (USDM)
$ 2200.00 Plus shipping and handling.

30006 - B16B (EK TypeR) Complete Change Over
185Hp 117 Trq 10.8 Compression(JDM)
$ 3850.00 Plus shipping and handling.
 

·
the hard-parker
Joined
·
4,257 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
updated****** check my first post!
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,428 Posts
also here you go From ozaka engines

96-00 d16y8
550$ Motor tranny ECU Harness
plus S&H

92-95 d16z6
450$ no tranny
plus S&H

92-01 h22a
1900$ everything included
plus S&H

H23
1950$ everything included
Plus S&H

It seems keeping the d motor..over any motor seems the way to go..
But if you swap..even the H series motor is cheaper..
K is out of this world unless your parents are loaded or your a drug dealer..lol
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
112 Posts
Reality check here ^^^ i agree to the fullest that you shouldn't go swapping in over priced motors, and hell any motor swap is going to get expensive... especailly when you've gotta get all the extra crap to go along with it, plus even if you do it yourself a proper sway should take about 10-12 hours... even if you had to weld up your own turbo manifold for your d its not gonna take that long to put it in, and a low budget turbo d will be faster than mostly stock b's, so just know what you want to do with your car and stay in your budget.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
780 Posts
in my oppinion- if youre on a budget stick with the d... for the money it costs to get a b swap- you can make one hell of a fast d
thats why im still using my d.. - i was gonna swap to an H22... or a B18... but then i realized that'd be all my money and that i could make a d just as fast or faster for the same price... - and a lot less wiring crap... i hate wiring...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
112 Posts
and if more people would realize that any thing can be fast there would be a lot less "ricers" with big egos, and if more people would find this place there would be less of the "i've got a B-series I've gotta be fast" mentality, i may have one but i'm not a hater!! i've got just as much love for the d as anybody on here
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
459 Posts
nice write up guys!!
 
A

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
to put in my two cents....

if i would have done a b-swap (what i originally wanted to do), i would have gotten the b18c1, which the cheapeast price i found shipped (with tranny, axles, and linkage) was $3200.

the cheapest price i found for a local shop to install the engine was $600. so $3800 it would have been done.

I went with a d-series swap though, a JDM d15b vtec... and a turbo kit. now realize, that when you guys were calculating costs and stuff, you guys were figuring that most of the work we would do ourselves... well some of us don't have the tools/time/means to do this stuff and have to pay to have it installed.

anyway, my d15b swap and turbo kit with extras is quickly adding up to the same cost as the b-series swap would have been.... and i'm not even done yet, and i'll have marginally more hp. (maybe 10hp more? the b18c1 i was looking at was the 180 hp version... my turbo setup will probably have 180-190 hp) the downside is with this turbo kit that was a non-factory item, my reliability is seriously decreased over what it would have been with an OEM motor swap. more moving parts, more parts that were not originally meant to go together.... plus with all the tunability, you run the risk of accidentally messing up settings, etc... there is just so much more to worry about (A/F ratios, temps, etc...)

anyway, that is something that you need to consider when doing swaps: what is your ultimate goal? you want straight-performance, more horsepower for a mild daily driver, or a track car?

for me it was really just daily driveability with more power than my little d15b7 had to offer.... honestly the b18c1 stock in my car would have sufficed... I was swayed to the get the D by another member here, and i did... i don't regret it, but i'm just saying it ultimately would have been cheaper (in my case) to just get a b-swap, even if i got the Hasport mounts.

right now my turbo d15b build is up to over $3,800 and i haven't even finished buying parts, and labor is not included. its easy to say "ok, this much for this, this much for that", but there are a TON of parts you don't figure when you estimate... for instance with the d-series swaps you guys are assuming we'll use our old tranny - but the b-series swaps come with the JDM trannies. well my motor had over 170k on it when i got it - i am not exactly "excited" about using this old tranny with a new turbo motor boosting to 190+ hp... so i wanted the tranny too... that will put you at $1,000. then there are the little things...

BOV (you never get the cheapo one, you always have to upgrade), and depending on what you do you might need VAFC, Profec, gauges, etc.... this stuff is almost never figured into the price (or you guys assume the buyer will find cheap/used ones - which isn't always the case).

anyway, for the new/prospectus buyer out there, always calculate new prices, and assume the worst for budgeting purposes - that way you are not left stranded being two items short of your build or anything... you never know if you won't be able to find that throttle body, turbo, or wastegate or something used at a cheap price.

just words of advice from someone who is DOING the build right now....

EDIT: when i get home tonight i'll post all my costs and where i'm at so you guys can see where i come up with my numbers. if nothing else i hope this helps someone else who might find themselves needing to make a decision on the B or D.....
 

·
the hard-parker
Joined
·
4,257 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
question is, how much are you spending on your parts? like you said, it's easy to throw up costs, but if you're paying top of the line for everything, of course you're going to be spending more. this is meant for a person on a budget. There will always be the hidden costs no matter what you do. You have to realize even when doing a swap, things will not be perfect. I don't know about you, but I can find a jdm d15b vtec swap for about 700 bucks WITH tranny. this with 30-40k. Besides, even with a B-swap reliabity can be an issue. This price comparsion is based on using what you have though, not on getting a swap and then trying to turbo it. Of course your costs are going to add up when doing both of these. You may have something with the reduced reliability of a turbo set-up, but honestly I think the knowledge of how a motor should run, be tuned and should be cared for is priceless. Basic maintenance is such as if you were going to get a swap and take care of it. Checking and changing oil, belts, caring for head gaskets...that kind of thing. One last thing about the B swap is the fact that these are a)not cheap, b) harder to come by. If I blow my D up, I can go out and get both a whole new D and a tranny if I so choose for under 1k. I looked into B swaps and an H swap, and I realized it wasn't for me. The cost was too great, when even with minimal knowledge at the time, I knew I could learn enough for a turbo set-up, and know more about my car and engine in the end.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
66 Posts
this is a nice thread but doesnt apply to SOME people cause i live in puerto rico and down here we can get a b16a2 for $1,500 LOCALLY no shipping costs involved and get it installed for $300. b18c1's go for $1,800 and h22a go for 2,200... and so on... i even heard that u can order a b18c5 from replublica dominicana which is the island next to us for $500 plus shipping wich goes up to about $900 and u have 200hp... im not sure if getting the b18c5 is legal but all the other engines are... even nissan guys have fun too they can get a sr20det for $1,800..... with these costs im considering the swap..though id rather stay D turbo im gonna see which deal suits me the best..whatever gets more power for a lower cost thats what im gettin..always trying to save.. lol with 4k i can get a b18c turbo and really GO FAST....
 
1 - 20 of 233 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top