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The Wife and the Car
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Discussion Starter #1
Guys I have spent the last few weeks trying to gather this info.
its spread out over hundreds of thousands of posts.

I dont think it should be so hard for the brains on this forum to come up with a single FAQ or post on the limits of the Honda Engine.

This is what I have gathered so far. Feel free to add what you know.

a. Stock Internals. Good for 220 BHP
b. Stock retainers 320 BHP

Stuff we dont have answers for
1. Stock Clutch
2. Stage 1 clutch
3. Stage 2 clutch
4. Stage 3 clutch
5. Forged Rods and pistons
6. Stock Drive Shaft
7. Stock gear box / diff
8. Stock Injectors
9. Stock valves
10. Stock Valve guides

Another approach would be for all the boys here with 300-700 BHP post what components started to fail as their power climbed from stock to what it is now.
 

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95 ex coupe
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4,281 Posts
Guys I have spent the last few weeks trying to gather this info.
its spread out over hundreds of thousands of posts.

I dont think it should be so hard for the brains on this forum to come up with a single FAQ or post on the limits of the Honda Engine.

This is what I have gathered so far. Feel free to add what you know.

a. Stock Internals. Good for 220 BHP NOT TRUE
b. Stock retainers 320 BHP NOT TRUE.

Stuff we dont have answers for
1. Stock Clutch
2. Stage 1 clutch
3. Stage 2 clutch
4. Stage 3 clutch
5. Forged Rods and pistons MORE THEN MOST HONDAS WILL EVER MAKE
6. Stock Drive Shaft DEPENDS ON DRIVER
7. Stock gear box / diff DEPENDS ON DRIVER
8. Stock Injectors
9. Stock valves
10. Stock Valve guides

Another approach would be for all the boys here with 300-700 BHP post what components started to fail as their power climbed from stock to what it is now.

those are my answers for you.
driveshafts and tranny stuff depends on drivers. ive seen people break axels at 200whp. but my stock trans and axels are fine at 300whp atthe track. depends on how you drive.
and how much power rods andpistons holds depends on a tuner
 

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95 ex coupe
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4,281 Posts
isnt the d crank rated safe up to 500?
pretty sure speedfactory runs a stock crank and make high 600's
remember the d series cranks are forged from factory unlike any other honda.
 

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I think the only thing on that list that has any relevance is injectors, seeing as how they have a given flow rate and a maximum duty cycle. everything else is like all the "how long does weed stay in my system?" posts from all over the web. it's all going to be hearsay and conjecture and will be based on factors too numerous to list. mechanical parts break when they break. If you snap one rod at 273 whp, does that mean the other 3 are only rated to 273? Nope, since they didn't break. And like boostedsohc posted, the breaking point of driveline parts is even harder to quantify. I like the initiative for trying to gather all this info, but what I think you'll wind up with is a bunch of numbers that are essentially meaningless in the larger context.
 

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Too vague, too many factors.

Even the stock bottom end thing is vague. Someone could reliably make over 220hp with street driving, yet a track car could blow up at 200hp.

The "stage x" clutch thing is a joke too. There is nothing that defines what the stages mean. If its a good clutch it will have a specific rating.

The maximum power supported by the injectors is easily calculated, no mystery there.

I cant see anyway of knowing when stock valves are going to be a limitation. Theyre not limited by power, they limited by EGTs. Unless you want to go oversized, or wish to push the limits with tuning without increasing octane, I dont see how valves could ever really have a defined failure point.


Im really confused by the statement that stock retainres will fail at 320 hp. People have pushed beyond that point on stock heads, so why would the retainers magically fail because pof the power output of the engine when you could be beyond that point with a stock cam, stock springs, etc?

This thread is a bit of a fail...
 

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1992 Civic Si
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cant see anyway of knowing when stock valves are going to be a limitation. Theyre not limited by power, they limited by EGTs. Unless you want to go oversized, or wish to push the limits with tuning without increasing octane, I dont see how valves could ever really have a defined failure point.
Mine saw 1600 degrees on some highway pulls and about 1500 in quarter mile races and never burned a valve. In case anyone wondered.
 

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The Wife and the Car
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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
weed stays in your system or 3 weeks.
I know cause a whole lota brothers need to pass their medical every 6 months.
And we have it down to a day. so its really not that hard.

The reason I made this post was cause If I had turbo-ed a car Id know the answers.

For example on my Suuki. I would snap drive shafts like straws on a hard launch at 20 PSI.
My Clutch would smoke and smell like burnt hair at 16 PSI.
My Stage 2 Clutch held up to 20 PSI with no issues.

So its really not that hard.
Yes it depends on the driver some. But we are assuming that owners who build their motors will do some hard launches.

Ok i this post is going to be a fail.
At least tell me what Power output the stock Drive shafts can take.
Im paying Honda 500$ to put in some new ones and I dont wish to damage them.

Second thing. What Power will the stock clutch take.
My budget for the year is bust. But if I must upgrade the clutch I will.
Ive had good luck with the Excedy stage 2 units. They seem to take upto 140 BHP with no issues.

Since the honda is a new car to me Im asking the question. How can asking a question be a fail. Let people who have built stuff at least list what failed and when.
Ask me anything related to a suzuki car or a Yamaha bike and i can tell you the rating down to the last BHP or each part.
Anybody who has built a few engines will know these answers.
 

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94 hatch
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450 Posts
well if your on a budget and your paying the dealer to install axles id say use an oem replacement clutch. if it slips with just bolt ons then its you not the clutch.
 

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1988 Honda CRX
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Clutches are torque limited, not power limited.

Rods are mostly limited by RPM

Pistons are limited by peak cylinder pressure and heat.

Valves are limited by spring pressure and RPM and by being bounced and heat. This list is pretty well tied to power output as to get the power you need aggressive cams and high RPM which means strong springs.

Crank seems to be the strongest part of a D so it does nor matter as everything else will break before the crank.

Block. Bottom end seems about as strong as the crank, bores depends one heck of a lot on tune. Detonate it and it will split even at lowish power levels.

I think any ratings should presume proper tune, suitable fuel and hard but competent driving, Ie full power launches, but preload everything first and while savage on the throttle, not to savage on the clutch.

I am still pretty new to Hondas, so my comments are mainly based on hot rodded engines in general.
 

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2007 Dodge ram
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293 Posts
Generally speaking

Since you are asking for generalities and not "hard facts" I have done the best I can to answer your questions and give the best general answer...


a. Stock Internals. Good for 220 BHP(average tuner can get you to this point but I have seen 312whp on stock internals on the dyno)
b. Stock retainers (assuming you mean sleeves) 500+ BHP with a good tune
If you meant stock head bolts then I wouldnt push them over 250bhp for fear of stretching them and lifting the head.

Stuff we dont have answers for
1. Stock Clutch - 130 - 140 ft lbs torque (if your careful)
2. Stage 1 clutch - 135 - 160 ft lbs
3. Stage 2 clutch - 155 - 180 ft lbs
4. Stage 3 clutch - 175 - 190 ft lbs (remember these are general numbers for X number of clutch manufacturers)
5. Stage 4 clutch jumps up quite a bit because of the extra clamping force - 225 - 290 ft lbs
6. Stage 5 clutch (last stage before you get to multi-disc clutches) 315 - 375 ft lbs
5. Forged Rods and pistons (does depend on tuner) 600+
6. Stock Drive Shaft (with pre-load) 250 ft lbs (rev and dump) 140 ft lbs
7. Stock gear box / diff - Gears are dependent on the driver (good driver) 400 + (abusive driver) maybe 250 - 275 (shift forks will break first)
8. Stock Injectors - 160hp at 90% with 58lbs of fuel pressure (saw it first hand on dyno and didnt want to believe it either)
9. Stock valves - Flow good until around 415 - 450hp
10. Stock Valve guides - Should be good past the 600hp mark
11. Stock Valve Springs - Cam/RPM dependent - Stock cam 8200-8500 RPM - Mild cam 7500 - 7750 RPM - Race Cam is not recommended

Hope this helps...
 

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Friend of the D
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a. Stock Internals. Good for 220 BHP(average tuner can get you to this point but I have seen 312whp on stock internals on the dyno) It won't last long @ 312HP
b. Stock retainers (assuming you mean sleeves) 500+ BHP with a good tune
If you meant stock head bolts then I wouldnt push them over 250bhp for fear of stretching them and lifting the head. Actually, he meant valve spring retainers and I have no idea how he decided on 320BHP. This limit is very much related to your cam, the springs themselves, and your rev limit. Stock retainers have been proven to take a lot. BTW, I would replace my head studs as soon as I boosted my engine ;)

Stuff we dont have answers for
1. Clutch Way too many generalities here. A XTD is not the same as an Action clutch. Check with the manufacturer.
6. Stock Drive Shaft (with pre-load) 250 ft lbs (rev and dump) 140 ft lbs Too many variables here too. A LOT depends on the driver and how he launches.
7. Stock gear box / diff - Gears are dependent on the driver (good driver) 400 + (abusive driver) maybe 250 - 275 (shift forks will break first) My understanding is the stock differential will be the first thing to go. Forks seem to depend on the driver again (no FTS, etc)
9. Stock valves - Flow good until around 415 - 450hp Maybe, but the stock head won't.
11. Stock Valve Springs - Cam/RPM dependent - Stock cam 8200-8500 RPM - Mild cam 7500 - 7750 RPM - Race Cam is not recommended Stock cam won't make extra power at 8k+rpms and the springs may not last either. What's a race cam anyways?



Hope this helps...
 

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2007 Dodge ram
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Quoted by Aragorn - BTW, I would replace my head studs as soon as I boosted my engine.

X2 on that!
 

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Friend of the D
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Thanks guys that gives me some idea on the engine and how to do my shopping list.
Two of you guys mentioned the words preload as pertains to the drive shaft. What does that mean ?
Preloading is using your E-brake to hold you and the starting to let your clutch out, so you preload your axles and don't do a drop throttle launch that will shock them (and very possibly break them) .
 

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Premium Member
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956 Posts
weed stays in your system or 3 weeks.
I know cause a whole lota brothers need to pass their medical every 6 months.
And we have it down to a day. so its really not that hard.
Not to get OT here, but what you're saying is nobody has ever passed a drug test less than 3 weeks after smoking? I'll have to call BS because I just did...
 

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Friend of the D
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3,069 Posts
for what its worth i am using stock retainers on my 450whp build. no issues. 9000rpm all day.
That may be the most useful piece of information in this thread. That's with the "Danz" grind? That's got to be as wild a profile as you'll find. Stock retainers almost seem to be on the level of stock crankshafts (you'll break something else first).
 
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