[buzzbomb]

Hello dso family,

I was tearing apart a transmission and it was going pretty well until I got to pulling the ISB.

only eight ball left, no trace in the gearbox (unless metal filings).
The problem is it came apart when I tried to knock it out from the clutch housing side.
Now I have this:

from what I have searched and read, it practically falls out. But this one is in pretty snug.
and nothing can get enough of a 'bite' on it to pull it.
Any suggestions?

 

[slo_eg8]

heat?

 

[drtalon123]

What kind of tools do you have at your disposal? Welders? Claw pullers? Slide hammers?

Will a 3 jaw internal puller not grip the race enough to get it out with a slide hammer?

For stuff like that, I personally use a single shallow claw on the end on a slide hammer, push the claw in tight to the race with your foot, slam up real hard with the slide, move 180 out and do it again, until there is enough of a gap under the race.

It may take a while to create the gap, but consistent blows from a shallow claw like that will eventually get a gap wide enough between the race and the case bearing bore to fit a 2 or 3 claw puller on the end of a slide hammer to do the full monty.

 

[buzzbomb]

heat?

I tried heating it with an old hair dryer, worked fine for the bearing on the other end.
But, without any weight from the 'innards', I don't think it will just fall out.

What kind of tools do you have at your disposal? Welders? Claw pullers? Slide hammers?

I have a 2 claw puller and a slide hammer. but nothing sharp enough to get under the bearing case.

Will a 3 jaw internal puller not grip the race enough to get it out with a slide hammer?

with my 2 claw puller, if something could force the arms apart it might get a grip on it.
but tha way it is, nothing happens.

For stuff like that, I personally use a single shallow claw on the end on a slide hammer, push the claw in tight to the race with your foot, slam up real hard with the slide, move 180 out and do it again, until there is enough of a gap under the race.
It may take a while to create the gap, but consistent blows from a shallow claw like that will eventually get a gap wide enough between the race and the case bearing bore to fit a 2 or 3 claw puller on the end of a slide hammer to do the full monty.

i can try something like that, and see what happens. there is a keyway where maybe something can get it started.

 

[Oldcivicjoe]

Grab a storage tote that the case fits in, fill with 130°F water, soak the case bearing down for about 2 minutes, last 3 that came apart on me slid right out once the case hit temp, another one was a bit more stubborn, had to turn my impact hammer all the way down and buzz the case around the throw out bearing guide before it dropped.

 

[Soul Engineering]

So I'm going to go a different route with this because its aluminum, and I've had this same thing happen many times. I echo Talon's use of the single claw puller and a slide hammer, or the type with the "handle" that comes out that you can beat on, however, I suggest using Freeze Off instead of heat. I know it sounds counter intuitive to make the metal cold, but I have had great luck using it for all sorts of things, including several ISB's that looked just as tragic as yours. And yes, those ball bearings were pulverized by the gears and final drive. Follow the directions for the freeze off and it will work. Spray directly onto the bearing shell for 30 seconds (I'd just circle it), let it sit for 2 minutes, then go at it with the puller. Should pop right out. Heat is what seized it.

https://www.amazon.com/CRC-05002-Fr...=1640834912&sprefix=freeze+off,aps,254&sr=8-7

I had one once that got so hot that it galled to the case. That required more drastic measures. Had to cut the bearing shell into multiple pieces with a small cut off tool. That was like surgery and not very fun at all.

 

[drtalon123]

I suggest using Freeze Off instead of heat.

That'll work! Or computer duster cans turned upside down lol.

Grab a case, so you can shoot freezing liquid at your friends, its fun haha

 

[transzex]

A) Tack weld a washer to the outer bearing shell
B) Notch the outer shell along the oil drain back groove with a cut off death wheel, then use a chisel to fracture the outer shell.
C) Put the balls back in, then space then out and use a normal puller like my snap-on.

Snap-on Store

shop.snapon.com

D) Try a normal bearing puller and grip the bearing groove just enough and it might slide out. Too much pressure and it will lodge itself in the case.

A) is the only one I haven't tried. But a Hispanic immigrant friend for over 20 year now thought up the washer trick. I didn't have a welder at my disposal.

How they are made.....

 

[transzex]

Also, make sure while the trans is apart you deep clean EVERYTHING in the case, including the main and coutershaft, you'll find you plastic bearing cage parts in there and the oiling ports.

 

[Oldcivicjoe]

Also, make sure while the trans is apart you deep clean EVERYTHING in the case, including the main and coutershaft, you'll find you plastic bearing cage parts in there and the oiling ports.

This is the Yoda of honda(minimum) manual transmissions👆, pay attention! Windex works beautifully for cleaning the shafts and individual components, demagnatizes and dries fast enough to prevent surface rust and pitting, just like on a freshly cut brake rotor.

 

[drtalon123]

cleaning the shafts

 

[Oldcivicjoe]

Ok, so I might be the Yoda of cleaning my shaft, but thats beside the point!

 

[transzex]

Ok, so I might be the Yoda of cleaning my shaft, but thats beside the point!

Rookie

I put my shafts in the hot tub and turn the jets on.

 

[buzzbomb]

Once again dso comes through!
thanks to everyone for reading and replying.
of course, no one thing did it, it took a combination.

So I'm going to go a different route with this because its aluminum, and I've had this same thing happen many times. I echo Talon's use of the single claw puller and a slide hammer, or the type with the "handle" that comes out that you can beat on, however, I suggest using Freeze Off instead of heat. I know it sounds counter intuitive to make the metal cold, but I have had great luck using it for all sorts of things, including several ISB's that looked just as tragic as yours. And yes, those ball bearings were pulverized by the gears and final drive. Follow the directions for the freeze off and it will work. Spray directly onto the bearing shell for 30 seconds (I'd just circle it), let it sit for 2 minutes

i did try the cold spray, until the whole area was covered in frost, but still didn't move.

Grab a storage tote that the case fits in, fill with 130°F water, soak the case bearing down for about 2 minutes, last 3 that came apart on me slid right out once the case hit temp, another one was a bit more stubborn, had to turn my impact hammer all the way down and buzz the case around the throw out bearing guide before it dropped.

this, kind of...
i filled a storage tote (if your playing along at home, the trans case is roughly 15" x 20") with the hottest water my water heater could muster (too hot to keep your hands in for more that a few seconds.)
after soaking a few minutes, I tapped a first with a small flat screw driver underneath the bearing shell.
again and again roughly 60* until there was a gap.
Then I used a large flat screw driver to repeat the steps with the small one.


finally there was enough gap to get the jaws of the slide hammer and pull it the rest of the way.

I scraped up the face of the bearing seat, but after going over it with some emory cloth, i don't think it will do any harm.

A) Tack weld a washer to the outer bearing shell

that was the first thing I thought of, but my buddy who is a welder moved to FL about 3 months ago.
He took his welder with him, lol.

B) Notch the outer shell along the oil drain back groove with a cut off death wheel, then use a chisel to fracture the outer shell.

definitely the last resort, if all else fails...

C) Put the balls back in, then space then out and use a normal puller like my snap-on.

I tried this too, but eight is not enough, it just comes apart again.

D) Try a normal bearing puller and grip the bearing groove just enough and it might slide out. Too much pressure and it will lodge itself in the case.

the bearing groove is too round for my puller to get a grip:madface:.

 

[transzex]

8 balls are enough.....how many are there when new.

 

[Soul Engineering]

Glad to see you got it out! and the full on submersion method worked

 

[Oldcivicjoe]

Aluminum absorbs heat from liquid faster, so the case expands faster than the steel race, timing is important with the submersion method, leave it in too long and it's going to bind after the race gets up to temp.
I started heating the clutch side case and putting the bearings in the freezer for 30 minutes or so before install, they pretty much drop right in.
I really wish I had had the guts to dive into these transmissions 15 years ago, sadly I was chicken, im at 15 now, in under a year, have had a back log waiting for rebuilds or isb's since my last builder dropped off the grid, and im thinking "why the fack didn't I learn this sooner", I could have been making 400 more per trans rebuild with less than 4 hours extra time generally.

 

[transzex]

Aluminum absorbs heat from liquid faster, so the case expands faster than the steel race, timing is important with the submersion method, leave it in too long and it's going to bind after the race gets up to temp.
I started heating the clutch side case and putting the bearings in the freezer for 30 minutes or so before install, they pretty much drop right in.
I really wish I had had the guts to dive into these transmissions 15 years ago, sadly I was chicken, im at 15 now, in under a year, have had a back log waiting for rebuilds or isb's since my last builder dropped off the grid, and im thinking "why the fack didn't I learn this sooner", I could have been making 400 more per trans rebuild with less than 4 hours extra time generally.

Wait, You gonna make me raise my labor prices? (I WFH, no shop front)

My grandson was diagnosed as being Autistic/ADHD which explains the energy outbursts and other issues. Tracking his issues and looking back at mine, it explains a lot. When we talk math, it might as well be Klingon to others.

So yes, I focused on just few items, Honda transmissions.

 

[Oldcivicjoe]

Wait, You gonna make me raise my labor prices? (I WFH, no shop front)

CA is expensive, the 750 starting price from me for a rebuild is half what Aamco charges here, and every time I've had them do it it always has to come back out and be taken back apart for one reason or another.

 

[buzzbomb]

Crap! has it really been that long? family issues *(death, etc, lol) forced this on to the back burner.
after replacing all the bearings, now is that part I dread...
Putting it back together.

Looks like its all seated properly, but does not turn freely.

It seems like it's stuck between gears?
Any ideas?
Is there something I should check?
I can take more pics if that would help.
Thanks in advance!