oil pump reserach/questions...

1722 Views 20 Replies 8 Participants Last post by EsiNA, Feb 6, 2007

remoer

Discussion Starter · Jan 6, 2007

well since i'm in the process of do a d16a6 N/A rebuild w/PM7 pistons i've been doing some reserch on oil starvation and oil pump up grades. now the reason this has come to mind is, tha we up-grade our fuel pump, injectors, brakes, and whatever we can. shit it's in our gene, we're men. but within all this up grade i rarely here any one up-grading thier oil pump or anything to maintain our motor from oil starvation. so may-be withing doing this thread some question can be answer or even i might even answer my own questions on here thread.

here's flow chart below(thanks downest). now if you see there is a very small qt/[email protected] ratio w/a little porting it should improve the flow rate(for your engine build), with being very careful not to over port.

downest said:
Some info on swapping around OEM Honda oil pumps:

D16A6 Oil pump flows 46.4 qt/[email protected]
D16Z6 Oil pump flows 47.6 qt/[email protected]
D16Y8 Oil pump flows 35.3 qt/[email protected]

now i have readed endyn's link on: D Series Engine Building Tips
http://www.theoldone.com/articles/d_series_engine_building_tips/

i'm still a little confuse. it lies within two part on endyn page. the first one is: the opening of the oil holes on the main bearing. if the oil on the bearing is a bit smaller wouldn't opening help with the porting of the oil pump and they open the diameter of the main oil gallery on the side of the block. they also did do considerable radiusing of it's intersect with the oil filter housing. has anyone else has seen and heard anyone else doing this type of work on they N/A build up. Bones you've been around Bisi enough to know if and has he done any type of this work?

and second is really not about the oil pump but more of a footnote question. now on the endyn page they were talking about notching your block. is really important to even notch your block even if you're using your stock rods w/different piston?

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remoer

Discussion Starter · #2 · Jan 7, 2007 (Edited)

as i have done more research i've stumble on this thread:

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1573353

now since now the understanding or my understanding is what helps kill is the hi-revs not hp. now since i'm going to to have a 12lbs flywheel and having my red line at 7,200-7500k w/ the shift light around 6,800-7,000k should i have any worrys of my oil pump failure.

Sikocivic

· #3 · Jan 8, 2007

remoer said:
now on the endyn page they were talking about notching your block. is really important to even notch your block even if you're using your stock rods w/different piston?

The "block notching" they are talking about is for aftermarket rods to clear the block. I have a set of Eagle rods in my ZC motor and they hit the block at the bottom of the cylinders. I had to do the "block notch" so they would turn without hitting the block. If you are using stock rods, you are fine.

carby

· #4 · Jan 8, 2007

remoer said:
having my red line at 7,200-7500k w/ the shift light around 6,800-7,000k should i have any worrys of my oil pump failure.

I wouldn't worry about oil pump failure as long as you put a new pump in with your build. You should be fine at those revs as the stock Z6 pump is designed to handle 7k rpms. If I were you I would stick with a Z6 pump. One of the things that makes the Hondas reliable is a good oiling system. You see, with a higher flow pump there is more danger of oil starvation while driving around a corner at high rpms.

Maybe you can get a custom oil pan that's shaped to avoid oil starvation if you're really worried.

remoer

Discussion Starter · #5 · Jan 8, 2007

yeah i knew about the notching of the block, in the sense it being for a aftermarket rods. but it just didn't say it.

carby said:
Maybe you can get a custom oil pan that's shaped to avoid oil starvation if you're really worried.

moroso makes aftermarket pans but for B-motors and the d are 85-87. for $350. and OBX gets a hell fucking no. lol. but i'm still looking around.

SOHCpower

· #6 · Jan 9, 2007

uhh i know a dseries is a dseries, but can a z6 oil pump fit a y8 block? is there an advantage to this like just better oil flow?

lsturbohatch10

· #7 · Jan 9, 2007

i think the z6 would fit. but you would not have a dipstick if you put it on there.

SOHCpower

· #8 · Jan 9, 2007

dam anyway to modify the dip stick to fit? wtf does the y8 pump out less lol

lsturbohatch10

· #9 · Jan 9, 2007

just port it and shim it. it will put out plenty.

remoer

Discussion Starter · #10 · Jan 12, 2007

lsturbohatch10 said:
just port it and shim it. it will put out plenty.

my thought exactly. :TU: just need a second opinion. uh wait a second that on me or the y8. cause i was going to get a z6 and port and match it to make sure the flow doesn't disrupt the flow. i hope that make sense to some.

the spice must flow...... uh wait a sec, nevermind.

carby

· #11 · Jan 12, 2007

remoer said:
make sure the flow doesn't disrupt the flow.

If you're convinced that you need more flow than stock you're going to need to get that extra oil from somewhere...

remoer

Discussion Starter · #12 · Jan 12, 2007

carby said:
If you're convinced that you need more flow than stock you're going to need to get that extra oil from somewhere...

well, it not that i need more oil, it that i didn't want oil starvation if/and i ever went w/foo and dave(sillyimportracer) autoxing. now if and i get a moroso oil pan w/baffels to help on the corners it will bring up my oil to 5qts. and w/a oil cooler thats another qt. so 6qt is enough oil? can you tell that, i have taken the time on the research.

Reactions: 1

carby

· #13 · Jan 12, 2007

remoer said:
and w/a oil cooler thats another qt. so 6qt is enough oil? can you tell that, i have taken the time on the research.

You're really only going to need to worry about keeping the oil pickup submerged so the amount of oil you're adding to include your oil cooler isn't going to count towards your goal.

I haven't researched the moroso pan but it sounds like your best bet. I would go with the pump that matches your A6 block and use the baffled pan to help stop the oil from splashing away from the pickup on the track.

Then, you can simply change the viscosity of your oil if you want to modify your oil pressure. Increasing the oil flow in your engine is a little bit more involved than buying a 'high flow' oil pump.

Food for thought: A6 blocks do have an oil cooler on the back of the block that works pretty good. so IMO you might hit the track for a day and watch your oil temps and see if you're going to a little too much trouble. The autox guys probably know best on this one so if they are using one I say go for it.

Reactions: 1

remoer

Discussion Starter · #14 · Jan 12, 2007

hmm, i never thought of it that way? true food for thought. the oil cooler was more for i do tons of road trips in the summer, more for the endurance. living in hotlanta well it's fuckin hot. now as for getting the proper oil pump. i depends on my set up. i have been doing so research on my build and you have been the only person some viable response. i really want to have have it weekend/track worthy with the option for the long distance run. it's been along i really don't want my cake and eat it but more of a: what'a pactical in the real world not the forum.

carby

· #15 · Jan 12, 2007

Thanks for the rep :TU: I can understand you want a reliable car. Keep in mind that most of the reason hondas last so long is because they have a good oiling system and a good cooling system. Seems like sometime we get caught up in aftermarket overkill with things like $80 spark plug wires.

Take some pics of your track day!

EsiNA

· #16 · Feb 3, 2007

I have one more question. On a D16Z6 engine....... If you want rev it to 8.5k rpm will the stock oil system be fine? Or shold you port the oil pump and bore larger holes on bearings, and some other things like on Endyne page saies.

Thanks!

bigtom

· #17 · Feb 3, 2007

didnt read the whole thing but the modifications are legit and help but the oil flow numbers should include which viscosity oil and ot what temperature they were tested to be valid. or at least to know they were all tested the same.

remoer

Discussion Starter · #18 · Feb 5, 2007

why would you want to rev to 8.5k when your peak hp/tq point for a d motor is 6.8-7.5k but i will say this: as i readed the porting of the bearings. i was thinking to myself it would be a useless thing to do, since the powerband is w/in 6,800 for tq and 7-7.5k for hp. now in what i'm doing is to just make sure i portmatch everything for flow capacity on the oil pump and leave the bearing alone. but again this is my opinon in my build, you can do whatever you think for your build. iagain i've done pretty extensive research on this.

CiViC_SI

· #19 · Feb 5, 2007

EsiNA said:
I have one more question. On a D16Z6 engine....... If you want rev it to 8.5k rpm will the stock oil system be fine? Or shold you port the oil pump and bore larger holes on bearings, and some other things like on Endyne page saies.

Thanks!

If you have not done any upgrades to your head i would not rev it that high. the valves will start to float and you will lose power.

carby

· #20 · Feb 5, 2007

CiViC_SI said:
If you have not done any upgrades to your head i would not rev it that high. the valves will start to float and you will lose power.

Not to mention the with the stock cam he won't have any increase in power.

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