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1997 Civic DX Hatch
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984 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
issues with my buddys car.

okay so here is the short of it.

when engine is cold idle is about 50-55psi
warm idle is 10psi
doing a pull oil pressure stays with the old 10psi per 1k rpm. till 4k rpm it goes to about 45psi and never goes any higher. all the way to 8k.

to get understanding of situation read the long of it here.

so vitara Z6 turbonetics turbo i forget the size lol. spun bearings a few months ago due to low oil pressure. when that happend we changed the oil pump(ported), crank, main bearings, rod bearings.

still ahd low oil pressure(talking like 1psi at idle. yes 1psi.(thought it was the gague so ignored it yada yada yada we later find out of all things causing the low oil pressure its the HEAD.(same head we used on a mini me a few month prior and it too had strangely low oil pressure we didnt think anything about it)

we change the head. oil pressure goes up a bit still having a bit of lower then wed like and still not going above 40psi. not giving 10psi for every 1k rpm more like 5psi for every 1k rpm.

added a .07" restrictor in turbo line and that didnt help.

we shimmed the pump and that didnt change anything.

we then swapped to a different pump(3rd pump in this engine now) this one is not ported but was used. so now we get some better results(the ones listed in the short of it) so 10psi for every 1k rpm till 4k it doesnt go above 40-45psi all the way to 8k. even if just sitting at about 5k it doenst go above 40psi.

this is running 5w-40 rotella t6.

bearings are in spec King racing bearing(the oil holes have a slight pot to them from king)

the things we are thinking of trying are this.

thicker oil.
porting this pump.
swapping gauges(this is a mechanical gauge though a decent more expensive one)
and sadly wonder if its an issue with the block some how not being able to make beyond 40psi when oil is warm.

my car for refrence uses a cheap ass sunpro gauge and had acl bearings that have the oil holes ported by me. oil pump is ported (no trubo)
cold idle is like 100psi
warm idle is about 25psi
and doing a pull to 8k it stays well above 10psi for every 1k

any help or light that can get shed on this would be great. this engine has had almost everything changed on it though still having issues.

if you need me info just ask id be glad to share.

thanks.
 

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You say the bearing clearances are in spec, but that doesn't tell us what they are.

I can't remember, but does the Z6 have or need the oil control jet that goes in the block?
 

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1997 Civic DX Hatch
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984 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
id have to look back at my notes and see if i can find the actual spec the bearings are at.

also as far as i know the z6 does not use the oil jet as wehn we did the mini me with his d15 block we had to remove the jet from the block for the vtec to work with the z6 head.
 

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1997 Civic DX Hatch
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984 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
okay i couldnt find my notes on this engine.

we put it back together months ago but the best i can remember the bearing clearances where on the looser side but still in spec something like .02mm on 1,5 then .035mm on 2,3,4 on the mains and .035ish mm on all the rods.

sorry i dont have exact numbers. but i still dont feel it would be the bearing clearence as it would have low oil pressure across the board not just above 4k rpm.
 

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I've had similar issues mine was due to the pickup was sitting on the oil pan, pan had a dent in the bottom causing it to not pick up the oil
 

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I've had similar issues mine was due to the pickup was sitting on the oil pan, pan had a dent in the bottom causing it to not pick up the oil


On the same thought process as D16turbo.......could it simply be the little gasket between the pickup and block?
 

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1997 Civic DX Hatch
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984 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
the pickup has a gasket there.

its relatively new and not ripped or anything. its made out of gasket paper stuff.

pickup is a good point though. i may try changing the pickup and see if that makes a difference. the oil pan doesnt have any dents in it. if it does they are not significant at all.
 

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1997 Civic DX Hatch
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Discussion Starter #8
okay so small update with this.

still looking for some help.

so we swapped out the oil pick up.

also changing the gasket for the pickup wile there. the old pick up had a small dent in it.

the oil pan has no dents or anything its all in really good shape.

saw no change in the oil pressure. we did however see a small change in oil pressure by about 5 psi or so by just adding a little bit more oil. so we over filled it just a hair. and up untill 45psi everything was higher by 5psi. so when at 3k rpm oil pressure was at 35psi.

so a htought is that oil isnt returning to the block quick enough. here is some pics of the oil return see if you guys thing there is anything wrong with it.

i just cant think that there would be that much oil in the turbo to no pic it up. it has a .07" restrictor.

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we swapped the gauges with my car. it read a little higher but my gauge is a cheap ass sunpro so i wouldnt expect it to be fully acurate. his gauge in my car read 80psi at cold idle is doesnt ever go above 55psi cold idle.

anyone have any more ideas?

our only other thing we can think is to try thicker oil and see if that helps. then after that its pull the engine and rebuild it in another block cause everything else has been changed or checked.
 

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1997 Civic DX Hatch
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Discussion Starter #11
im gonna bump this thread as im still having this problem.

so here i am again. hoping that someone has some insight.

this is the now 3rd time we have rebuilt this engine so here is the setup now.

we got a different d16z6 block.
brand new oem oil pump(not shimmed or ported)
brand new main bearings(king or acl dont remember right off hand)
brand new rod bearings(acl)
all bearing within spec though on the looser side(it is a turbo motor)
same p2p0 rods
same vitara pistons. new rings cause new block.


we have tried a different cylinder head.

we have restricted the turbo feed line.

sanity checked the oil pressure gauge with mine. its working fine.


we still no matter what when engine is hot it get 10psi per 1000 rpm all the way to 4k rpm it sits at 40psi and doesnt go higher. all the way to 8k. just stays at 40psi. then warm idle is around 0-5psi. cold idle is 60psi so wtf.

thinking of trying to shim the oil pump but idk if that would help any insight on that would be great.

and i guess trying 20w 50 oil. i dont see that raising the pressure that much though i will try it.

any help is much appreciated. im going crazy on this.
 

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\/Your Mom Was Here\/
Vibe GT
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4,833 Posts
20w50 and shimming the pump may increase the PSI but that will only add wear on the pump and heat the oil and pump unnecessarily IIRC.

Did you have to clearance the girdle to make the rods fit?

How is your gauge hooked up to the block, directly or with a T fitting?
 

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1994 Civic CX Hatch
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40 Posts
The block itself had to be notched for the rods but the girdle did not.
The gauge is a T fitting. And we have tried the gauge line on both parts of the fitting. Straight through and on the 90
 

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\/Your Mom Was Here\/
Vibe GT
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4,833 Posts
Try eliminating that T and put the sensor straight into it (no extra fittings at all). If anything you can get a cheap sandwich plate that has ports on it you can use as well if that fixes it.
 

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1994 Civic CX Hatch
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40 Posts
Right now I have a t off the block with the straight through going to the turbo and the 90 going to the gauge. Are you thinking take the oil to the turbo out of the equation and test it with just the gauge connected?
 

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97 honda coupe
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if your mains are pretty loose you might need to port your oil pump or buy a high volume pump to meet your demands. I would try thicker oil and see how high it goes, pressure relief should be around 60 to 75. If you dont hit the relief especially on a cold startup then you have other issues, pump not putting out enough volume or a leak somewhere.
 

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1994 Civic CX Hatch
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My mains are 1=0.0015 2=0.0015 3=0.0020 4=0.0017 5=0.0015.
We have never been able to find a leak anywhere and I've never had the oil level drop down. And this is the 4th oil pump we have tried. The previous ones we have tried porting and shimming them but we only saw maybe a 1-2 psi increase anywhere. But we are still going to try shimming this one since its a brand new oem and worth a shot.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
ive thaught about porting the pump for more flow but as Aaron said we in the past had a ported pump and it had the same issue.

though the sandwich plate could be worth a shot.

we could pull the T out of the equation for start up and see if it makes a difference. just wouldnt want to drive without having oil to the turbo.

we will also try thicker oil. i dont think shimming would do anything since it doesnt even hit the relief right? isnt that all shimming does is raise when the relief opens?
 
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