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Discussion Starter #1
Hey Guys, need some urgent help...

I had noticed my car wasnt building and keeping boost on friday, so i did a few things to my car this weekend since i really havent had time lately:

-removed intake i made off of the compressor inlet of the turbo
-i decided to wire my 4-wire O2 into my p28, CEL went away.
-ran a bottle of seafoam thru my gas tank to clean out injectors, etc... etc...
-gapped my plugs to .30

well, took the car out for a spin today and noticed i was building boost again. so problem solved on that end. but now the car was begining to act like it had misfires, like if the car wasnt controlling gas correctly. if i floor it, it runs fine, but when i let off the gas or on lower idleing, its spitting and poppin, jumpy and inconsistent as hell...

could it have been the wiring of the O2? im confused as fuck right now...so i parked it back in the garage.

the only real big deal i did this weekend was wiring the O2, other than that, it was just basic maintenance.

My setup incase it helps,

D16Y8
Custom Log Manifold
Hitachi HT18 Turbo
Vortech FMU
Stock Injectors
NGK wires
SMIC
NGK plugs
P28
other stuff that doesnt really matter...

-tek:confused:
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I traded cars with a guy, thats what he was running. since i have stock injectors right now, thats what i'll use till i can get my ecu chipped.

i have both 450cc DSM's and 550cc SIEMENS DEKA waiting in my garage...

-tek
 

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um, dude, your plug gap is ridiculous, that needs to be bigger than it is, unless you want a bridged plug, maybe .48 even bigger with a fat electrode, none of that iridium crap, just use the stock ngk plug, got a big electrode on it, plus a better coil wouldnt hurt any.

second, i know for sure your maxing those injectors, way too small for a turbo, you need to put those bigger ones in there before you burn something.

the o2 sensor controls a/f by sampling oxygen, if it didnt work right, the cel would be on, and it would revert to rich fuel setting for saftey.

I think plug gap is to blame, your gonna mess those plugs up with a gap that small, there is no way a gap that small is igniting all that air and fuel in there on time, its prolly still burning out the exhaust, causing that popping sound.

2 or 3 pounds is enough to lean the hell out of your a/f with those injectors, thats gotta be fixed before to warp or break something. let me know what happens with that.

oh, and go to this site www.spoonhonda.com for a service manual for your car, if your unsure about wires, plus its a good thing to have.
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
slowcivic2k said:
um, dude, your plug gap is ridiculous, that needs to be bigger than it is, unless you want a bridged plug, maybe .48 even bigger with a fat electrode, none of that iridium crap, just use the stock ngk plug, got a big electrode on it, plus a better coil wouldnt hurt any.

second, i know for sure your maxing those injectors, way too small for a turbo, you need to put those bigger ones in there before you burn something.

the o2 sensor controls a/f by sampling oxygen, if it didnt work right, the cel would be on, and it would revert to rich fuel setting for saftey.

I think plug gap is to blame, your gonna mess those plugs up with a gap that small, there is no way a gap that small is igniting all that air and fuel in there on time, its prolly still burning out the exhaust, causing that popping sound.

2 or 3 pounds is enough to lean the hell out of your a/f with those injectors, thats gotta be fixed before to warp or break something. let me know what happens with that.

oh, and go to this site www.spoonhonda.com for a service manual for your car, if your unsure about wires, plus its a good thing to have.
Thanks man,

i think thats what might have caused the issue, on my RSX i run a gap of .30, thats what boosted K20's run (.28-.35)...i did notice the gap was set to like .40+ like u mentioned...

my car ran superfine last week. i had got a muffler shop to make me a custom bent pipe for the turbo inlet, but it really restricted the airflow into the compressor. along with removing the pipe, i decided to do some maintenance, one was gapping the plugs. and it really made the car run like crap...

i'll let you know how it turns out...

thanks again,
tek
 

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slowcivic2k said:
second, i know for sure your maxing those injectors, way too small for a turbo, you need to put those bigger ones in there before you burn something.

2 or 3 pounds is enough to lean the hell out of your a/f with those injectors, thats gotta be fixed before to warp or break something. let me know what happens with that.
not tryin to start a fight here but how do you know "for sure" he is maxing those injectors out.... i am runnin stock injectors in mine with a fmu and afc hack... and when i got my car dyno/tuned i had to take out 20points of fuel on my vafc to even get a reading above 10 on the wideband.....

http://www.d-series.org/forums/showthread.php?t=46443

there is a page with my specs if your wondering....
 

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slowcivic2k said:
um, dude, your plug gap is ridiculous, that needs to be bigger than it is, unless you want a bridged plug, maybe .48 even bigger with a fat electrode, none of that iridium crap, just use the stock ngk plug, got a big electrode on it, plus a better coil wouldnt hurt any.
O RLY?

I run .28 on mine ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
kyle h. said:
O RLY?

I run .28 on mine ;)
well like i said before, i run .30 on my RSX, but re-regapping my plugs was the only real change i made to the car (which made it run like ass) other than adding seafoam to my gas tank...could that have been that bad? i mean seafoams basically the same shit as an injector cleaner!?!

all 4 plugs were extremely black now, and 2 of them were slightly wet with fuel...
i just re-gapped them to .45 (more or less where they were at before) and will test drive the car later tonight.

still wondering if it was the 4-wire O2 i wired...

Well see...
-tek

congrates on the ROTM!
 

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adjustment is adjustment, and an injector can only take so much abuse before it fails, and there is no way a 24 pound injectors at gonna keep up with 9-12 psi at even a mid rpm, regardless of what a afc will tell you, the injector will only do what its capable of, and i can tell you right now that he is running lean, what size injectors do most turbo 4 cylinders have? answer is around 350-450 sometimes a tad bigger, and thats for stock boost, of course you can squeeze a bit more out of them, but not enough to run 20lbs of boost.

and to kyle h.

im suprised you even spark, how much boost, compression and what fuel do you run, i have yet to see a gap that miniscule, and if it did fire, i bet your wasting about 1/4 of your air fuel because of a late burn, not trying to argue, ive boosted before and i just dont see how it is possible to ignite all that fuel and air with a spark that small and expect it to burn all the way. ive had my best results with a .50-.60 gap and a MSD 6A this was in my old 91 hatch with a 1st gen b16a with dsm 450's and a small 16g pushing 10lbs of boost, self imposed limit.
 

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TonyTek said:
well like i said before, i run .30 on my RSX, but re-regapping my plugs was the only real change i made to the car (which made it run like ass) other than adding seafoam to my gas tank...could that have been that bad? i mean seafoams basically the same shit as an injector cleaner!?!

all 4 plugs were extremely black now, and 2 of them were slightly wet with fuel...
i just re-gapped them to .45 (more or less where they were at before) and will test drive the car later tonight.

Well see...
-tek

congrates on the ROTM!

.45 is good for a stock ignition, if your running an MSD or equivalent, upping the gap will be an advantage, a bigger kernel to set off the fuel means a faster burn, more power.

mind you running a lower octane fuel will help this a bit, since low octane combusts easier, i can see how one could run a gap that small and still run, but at the risk of detonation because of unstable compressed fuel? hell no. nor am i going to retard my timing to run my engine like that. id rather run high octane, a good plug gap, and good timing, and know that my engine is not going to knock knock knock itself to heaven's door.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
first off, thanks everyone for posting some quick responses...

just got back from taking a ride,

car responded alot better after gapping back to .45 but after driving for about 1mile on my way back, the car started acting a bit sluggish and when i finally slowed down and stopped, the car was extremely lazy getting out of 1st...started kinda popping again...

at the light to turn to my house, the idle was erratic bouncing from 900-1100 rpms...

i get home, park this bitch, let it cool for a few mins. turn it back on and the idle was normal again...

honestly dont know why its acting retarded...map sensor not reading well?

all i know is im taking the O2 off, cuz it really isnt helping...also, probably gapping to .48

my car ran hard with no O2, 7psi. stock injectors and my normal setup described above.

all of a sudden the damn thing rides like shit...

-tek
 

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slowcivic2k said:
damn that is truely tiny, ill stick with a complete burn, and fuel economy, with my MSD and larger plug gap.
know what your talking about before making stupid comments..

we all get complete burn with a smaller gap.. just because you have a larger gap does not mean you will make more hp, better mpg or anything.
many have run the stock ignition to 300-500hp running a gap around .022" and have no problems. some people need to close the gap some people dont while boosted. thats the stock ignition and just another way of saying every car is different. you only upgrade the spark system when its needed, and as a former owner of an msd ignition system i dont consider msd an upgrade.

plus i get 35mpg on my boosted motor and thats with a little beating on it.. ill bet i can get 40+mpg if i dont enter boost. just as good as when i got my car 5 years ago when it was STOCK.
 

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TonyTek said:
first off, thanks everyone for posting some quick responses...

just got back from taking a ride,

car responded alot better after gapping back to .45 but after driving for about 1mile on my way back, the car started acting a bit sluggish and when i finally slowed down and stopped, the car was extremely lazy getting out of 1st...started kinda popping again...

at the light to turn to my house, the idle was erratic bouncing from 900-1100 rpms...

i get home, park this bitch, let it cool for a few mins. turn it back on and the idle was normal again...

honestly dont know why its acting retarded...map sensor not reading well?

all i know is im taking the O2 off, cuz it really isnt helping...also, probably gapping to .48

my car ran hard with no O2, 7psi. stock injectors and my normal setup described above.

all of a sudden the damn thing rides like shit...

-tek
have you ever checked the o2 sensor voltage with a volt meter?
 

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Discussion Starter #17
na, but i guess i can bring my multimeter from work tomorrow, how much current/voltage am i suppose to get from the white and green cables, black are ground?

Im also gonna get some new plugs, since they might just need changing...

-tek
 

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konigcivic said:
know what your talking about before making stupid comments..

we all get complete burn with a smaller gap.. just because you have a larger gap does not mean you will make more hp, better mpg or anything.
many have run the stock ignition to 300-500hp running a gap around .022" and have no problems. some people need to close the gap some people dont while boosted. thats the stock ignition and just another way of saying every car is different. you only upgrade the spark system when its needed, and as a former owner of an msd ignition system i dont consider msd an upgrade.

plus i get 35mpg on my boosted motor and thats with a little beating on it.. ill bet i can get 40+mpg if i dont enter boost. just as good as when i got my car 5 years ago when it was STOCK.

well then, why dont you let him decide what works best, as you said it works for some, not others. high octane fuel takes longer to burn, and harder to set off, because of its stability, this is what can cause a car to not burn all the way given it didnt have enough time and spark to do so, i dont know what his setup is exactly, but im sure hes using 93 with minor if any adjustment in timing.


and if your MSD didnt get anything for you, thats your loss, i took my B16A our for a drive before i put the kit on, and then put it on and advanced timing 6 degrees, ill tell you what, you will feel throttle response instantly, plus anyone can get a bit out of it, open the gap, put more power to the plug, your saying that it doesnt help at all? thats bs. all i have to say on that.
 
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Its probably something up with your o2 sensor. Mine did the same exact thing. I needed an o2, so my freind gave me his old secondary o2 thinking it would work fine. It did the same thing as yours. It drove fine for a bit, then sputtered and seemed to misfire. The more I drove the worse it got. Make sure you have a heated o2 for your primary. Your wiring could also be wrong. The fact that your cel turned off means nothing. Mine did the same. I bought a new o2, wired it in and it runs great again. Did you try unplugging it and driving for a bit? As soon as I unplugged mine it was fine.
 

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TonyTek said:
na, but i guess i can bring my multimeter from work tomorrow, how much current/voltage am i suppose to get from the white and green cables, black are ground?

Im also gonna get some new plugs, since they might just need changing...

-tek

www.spoonhonda.com for all your car manual needs, i highly suggest you get one, invaluable tool.

as for testing the o2 sensor, let the vehicle run warm till the radiator fan comes on, this lets you know that the O2 sensor should be in closed loop operation by now.

l---l
/ \
| 1 2 |
| 3 4 |
\____/

1 and two are the o2 sensor wires, the pos (1) is wht, and the gnd (2) is green or green black, and the other two are the heater

check 1 and 2 for .5v or less at a sustained rate, if this condition is met, your o2 should be replaced, as per the honda service manual.
 
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