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Two men shy of a group
99 civic sedan ex
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Discussion Starter #1
hey guys so i removed the head on my 22re because i had zero compression on the #4 cylinder, i dont have an air compressor or leak down tester so i couldnt test for bad valves. im thinking i will buy a street rv head from engnbldr and a 610c cam while im at it so i dont have to shave this head and worry about timing or rebuilding the valves, what do you guys think? im pretty sure i found my problem but if it is not then i hope i dont have to do the bottom end since i dont have an engine hoist or the money to buy one right now.

here are a few pictures




this is the #4 piston, i thought maybe the valve hit it since i broke the timing chain but i was wrong


this is the #4 cylinder valve and it looks like its not seating right, am i right?
this should cause no compression right?




thanks for any and all help, i could be wrong but should some carbon be chipped off if the #4 valve hit the piston?
 

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Easy, flip head over. Make the surface of the head level. Leave plugs in and fill the CC with water. If the valves leak, there you go. Personally, I would have rented a compression tester rather then rip a head off since the bottom end could be the factor for the lack of compression.
 

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Two men shy of a group
99 civic sedan ex
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1,312 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
idk i have heard multiple sides to that, some say its an interference engine and some say it is not. a few said they broke the timing chain while driving and the valves did not contact the pistons, i broke a brand new timing chain because i put the crank sprocket on backwards but im not sure if the valves bent or hit the piston at all im assuming the chain is weaker than a valve.

i was told that zero compression is almost always a valve not sealing right since a piston ring would offer some sort of compression most the time. i just went ahead and bought a brand new head from engnbldr with oversized valves and an aftermarket cam, so i guess if i still have no compression im pulling the bottom end?
 

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\/Your Mom Was Here\/
Vibe GT
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4,832 Posts
idk i have heard multiple sides to that, some say its an interference engine and some say it is not. a few said they broke the timing chain while driving and the valves did not contact the pistons, i broke a brand new timing chain because i put the crank sprocket on backwards but im not sure if the valves bent or hit the piston at all im assuming the chain is weaker than a valve.

i was told that zero compression is almost always a valve not sealing right since a piston ring would offer some sort of compression most the time. i just went ahead and bought a brand new head from engnbldr with oversized valves and an aftermarket cam, so i guess if i still have no compression im pulling the bottom end?
Yes they are an interference engine. I will tell you this from experience, I have a 91 22re and broke the chain and it bent 3 valves. The engine never had any work done to it before but I had another 86 truck break a chain and it not contact any valves. I really think it depends on how open some of those valves are. I bet you bent a valve just enough for it to not seat anymore. I think a new head will get you going. Just make sure you get the timing chain stuff right. And I used a kit from internal engine parts that came with metal guides and a factory chain for about $50.

I work for toyota, PM me if you have any questions.
 

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Two men shy of a group
99 civic sedan ex
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1,312 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Yes they are an interference engine. I will tell you this from experience, I have a 91 22re and broke the chain and it bent 3 valves. The engine never had any work done to it before but I had another 86 truck break a chain and it not contact any valves. I really think it depends on how open some of those valves are. I bet you bent a valve just enough for it to not seat anymore. I think a new head will get you going. Just make sure you get the timing chain stuff right. And I used a kit from internal engine parts that came with metal guides and a factory chain for about $50.

I work for toyota, PM me if you have any questions.
ya i figured that its either bent or carbon built up some how between the valve and seat, i bought an lcengineering timing set and broke the chain and crank sprocket so i bought a autozone chain and reused the old lower sprocket.the main reason for getting a new head is because i dont have to tools to rebuild this one and i didnt want to machine the head since i have heard that it can throw off the timing because the chain ends up being longer.

thanks i will definitely hit you up if i have any more questions
 

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FYI, contact engine builders before purchasing any of there products if you plan on keeping it cali legal. Ted is a really knowledgable guy and will be honest about which parts should pass cali emissions and which will not.

edit:

Also, you can have the head rebuilt, just ask builder to not resurface the head unless it needs it. And if it does need it, to do the min and ask to let you know how much was taken off. You can always get an adjustable cam gear to put it back to true TDC, but that will require more work/knwoledge. So make sure you know what you are doing.

One fo my old trucks broke plastic guides and chain jumped 3 teeth, no bent valves.
 

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Two men shy of a group
99 civic sedan ex
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1,312 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Ya i asked him and he said the cam should pass pass and the oversized valves wont affect it either, if the cam doesnt pass i will use stock to smog then put the aftermarket back in because i only have to smog once as long as i own the vehicle
 

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Two men shy of a group
99 civic sedan ex
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Discussion Starter #10
i will let you know when i find out, the head will be here tomorrow. engnbldr is fast i ordered it 2 days ago and tomorrow will be the third day, what do you think about forced induction for a 22re everyone at yotatech seems to think its impossible or pointless. oh ya and this is my first head gasket and head swap that i am doing on my own so hopefully it turns out good
 

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\/Your Mom Was Here\/
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FI 22re can be done easily but the problem is the motor isn't the best design for it. A small quick spooling turbo would work great, put down about 150tq and I would be happy with that. I just don't know what it involved in getting it turbo, the factory made a turbo for a few years but with the V6 it made it obsolete fast. The worse thing with it is the air flow meter being used, I don't know the limitations of the stock unit.

Instead of turbo I would go with some other options:
1. 3RZ motor 2.7 I4 16v DOHC 150hp / need bellhousing for trans and wiring/ecu

2. 7MG 3.0 24v I6 DOHC 200hp / need bellhousing for trans and wiring/ecu and a little massaging of the firewall for the EGR (if you choose to run it)

3. 5VZ 3.4 24v DOHC V6 / need trans(and tranfer is 4x4) ecu/wiring (not so sure on all the stuff needed but should be easy to find.

I have been wanting to do the 7mg swap in my 2wd truck just to have a little sleeper truck. Plus the I6 sounds badass compared to a 22re.
 

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Nice to see more 22re guys on here. I knew about Beer Drinkin, but not any of you other gents. Awesome.

My recently rebuilt 22re has had zero vaccuum since the rebuild....and its got the famous starting issue. Rings arent seating after 3000+ miles, wondering why. My new starter contacts from 4Crawler will be here this week, then onto figuring out my lack of vaccuum.

Post up your results with the new head. Im down to see how much better it runs.
 

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\/Your Mom Was Here\/
Vibe GT
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What rings did you use?

Also starting issues on the old 22re are usually related to the cold start system either the cold start switch (TSB on those). I can email the TSB if you give me your addy.
 

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As pointed out, the 22re is not such a good candidate for FI because for the cost of making it run right, you could just engine swap to a more powerful motor(as beerdrinker pointed out,... but i'd personally stay away from 3.slow). A 2.7 or 3.4 or even a bigger chevy motor would be higher on the list before I'd consider a 3.0 v6.

From my understanding, the 22re would require forged pistons/rods, and a standalone computer as a min to start. The starting point of the 22re does not lend itself to easy pop in of a turbo and tweak a few things here and there. If you find a 22rte (original turbo from factory) it is a better candidate for upgrading. The blocks themselves are slightly different as far as oil passages and the pistons/head combo is lower compression so it doesn't detonate as easily. That said, it does get worst gas mileage because of it and will require you to be in boost to get the same power as a non boosted 22re. The original ct20 turbo is also prone to cracking, although a quick and easy upgrade to it is a ct26 turbo. So if you are looking for FI, an original 22rte would be better than trying to turbo a 22re.

However, with enough money and determination, anything is possible.

FYI, I have an 85 runner with a 22re, an 04 tacoma with a Supercharged 3.4, a 22rte with complete wiring and ecu in the garage and a ct26 turbo ready to be swapped in to the 4runner, if I ever get around to it. I have also owned an 83 with a 22r that i swapped completely over to 22re which I still work on because it belongs to my little brother now.
 

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What rings did you use?
^^^^ this and even more important, were they installed correctly. All rings should have a designation for up and down. If not installed right, they will be cleaning on the upward stroke and not on the down. This will cause premature piston skirt/cyl wall wear and excess oil consumption.
 

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[email protected]

Go ahead bitches...laugh it up. Bet you never forget my email though! hahahaha

The relay and solenoid both click, but the starter doesnt start spinning until I roll the truck and bump the motor a few degrees.


Sorry for thread jacking, Im working my starting issues on yotatech. Back to OP's issue.
 

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Classic Man
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[email protected]

Go ahead bitches...laugh it up. Bet you never forget my email though! hahahaha

The relay and solenoid both click, but the starter doesnt start spinning until I roll the truck and bump the motor a few degrees.


Sorry for thread jacking, Im working my starting issues on yotatech. Back to OP's issue.
Probably a dead spot in your starters internals. Between the core and the brushes.








As for the 22re, it sure looks to me like your pistons smashed the valve, thats why its bent!!

Make sure you clean all the old head gasket material off the block before you try and reinstall the HG.
 

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Two men shy of a group
99 civic sedan ex
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1,312 Posts
Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
its all good on a little thread jack haha, i know about the 22rte but im sure they are very hard to find used parts so if i were to do a turbo i would probably find an ebay rte header and buy a ct26 turbo for it then custom build every other piece like i did my turbo hx.what i dont understand is how a 2.4L with bigger pistons and im sure rods might not take to much boost very well, the lcengineering turbo kit is $3,000 and only adds 30-50hp.

im sure i could build my own system for half that price but the only thing is figuring out the afm meter like you stated, maybe figure out a sidemount or top mount intercooler setup. get some bigger injectors and a rising rate fpr and a piggyback ecu or something but idk how to tune so thats what i would have to look into, one of my friends friend boosted his 22re and blew it up because he only used a rising rate fpr with no tune at all.

i dont want to do a swap because i have heard how reliable these 22re are and im just not a fan of swaps, but if i were to do one it would be a supra motor most likely. this is my first yota and it feels so damn slow (slower than my girlfriends lx with d16y7) which is what made me think of Forced induction, the easiest of which is nitrous and cheapest but i wouldnt want to be paying for a bottle all the time.i have a feeling once i get the head back on it should feel alot better with way more power since it was running on 3 cylinders when i went in for a smog
 

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I have seen LCE's kits and I feel they are way over priced and underdesigned,... by that I mean they just put a bunch of stuff together, but don't address the most important part,... fuel manangement and tuning. You certainly can piece together a similar or better kit for less than half the price, but again, you must address the inability of a 22re to take higher boost(by lowering compression) and the fuel/timing management(tuning). There is not much activity on this site, but it does have good info:
22RTE-Trucks - Index
 

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Two men shy of a group
99 civic sedan ex
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1,312 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
I have seen LCE's kits and I feel they are way over priced and underdesigned,... by that I mean they just put a bunch of stuff together, but don't address the most important part,... fuel manangement and tuning. You certainly can piece together a similar or better kit for less than half the price, but again, you must address the inability of a 22re to take higher boost(by lowering compression) and the fuel/timing management(tuning). There is not much activity on this site, but it does have good info:
22RTE-Trucks - Index
i still dont understand why it needs the compression lowered? i know my honda isnt the same but 9.4:1cr compaired to the 22re 9.3:1 it should handle it with a good tune and 91 octane fuel right? i know lcengineering is overpriced i was just using that price and performance numbers as a reference. on there website they do have a afm-maf conversion with bigger injectors but its another $1,000 so if you went that way your looking at $4,000 all together.

i want to turbo another vehicle but it will be a while, between me and my gf i own a 96 civic hx and 90 f250 7.3L diesel this 22re 4runner i bought for her and she owns a 98 lx. since boosting my civic the bug has bitten me and every other vehicle i drive in the 90's is dirt slow compaired to my 166hp honda :-/ . i would like to boost her daily driver civic so she wouldnt be stuck doing 45 up any moderate incline in 3rd gear but it makes more sense to either boost the ford or the 4runner.

thing about the ford is i have put so much money into it trying to make it run and start good (which it runs good but hates to start) that im on the fence whether i should waste more money trying to make it a capable towing vehicle or just get rid of it after winter. the 4runner with some decent power probably would be a great towing rig for the day that i buy a boat or something.
 
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