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Premium Member
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I decided to rebuild a S20-B000 for a friend. It started with just finding and replacing the infamous broken shift fork and morphed from there.

Before I started the rebuild I practiced splitting the case a couple of times because I read so much about people having trouble with separating the two halves, getting the locking clip to release the mainshaft bearing, and the infamous Interlock Guide Pin (IGP)

Don't forget Bones #1 rule: the interlock guide pin is the first thing you remove and the last thing you install! I'll add, that once you are done reassembling your case and ready to install the igp, you should be able to screw it in all the way by hand. If you cant, something's wrong so stop! It's probably the interlock not aligned correctly and It may need to be slid back and forth a little to get it aligned. It has a groove on the underside that the tip of the igp locks into when you screw it in.

Check with a flashlight, looking up through the igp hole. Make sure that the groove on the underside of the interlock is centered in the hole. If not go through the hole with a small screw driver and move it where you need it to center. Once centered, try installing the igp again by hand. Once successful, remove igp again and apply sealant to the threads and install - hopefully for the last time.

Sorry, I'm old and I have to mention important points as I think about them, otherwise I forget!馃榿

Anywho,


Removing all the outside stuff is routine - just follow the helms manual.

Once you have all of the case bolts out, Use a prybar to split the case enough for you to tap in wood or plastic wedges / shims and work several of them around the case.
At some point you have to stop and release the lock clip that holds the top half of the case to the mainshaft bearing.
You have to keep slight upward pressure on the top case , with the wedges, as you spread the lock clip. It's a bitch the first time you try it. I used a large pair of curved needle nose pliers and wedged the noses between the ends of the clip and then used two hands to spread the handles of the nn pliers which spread open the locking clip. I had just enough pressure with the wood wedges that once I had the clip spread enough to release the bearing, the top half of the case popped up and I was good.

Once I opened the case I just follow the helms and referred to several online videos to take out the gear sets and shift fork assembly and the differential.

Suggest you wear gloves when handling the gear sets. They have lots of sharp edges.

Take lots of pictures to refer to later!
Lay everything on a clean bench, suggest using doggie pads or adult bed pads, lay everything out in the order you take them out. Lay everything out and if you are a noobie like me, thoroughly clean one piece at a time and then put back in its place on the bench.

Decided to tackle the clutch housing first. Started by thoroughly cleaning it inside and out. Got it surgical clean!
Brake cleaner and airhose are your best friends!

Next I pulled both lower case bearings. I didn't use Honda's so called special tools though. Go to autozone and rent two tools: a slide hammer(27033 or 57033) and a pilot bearing removal tool(57059)


Motor vehicle Automotive lighting Automotive tire Bumper Vehicle door


Automotive lighting Motor vehicle Bumper Vehicle door Finger


Automotive tire Bicycle part Motor vehicle Cylinder Gas

Before attaching pilot bearing removal tool(pbrt) to the slide hammer, adjust the jaws small enough to slide between the side of the center of the plastic oil guide and the roller and as you adjust the jaws wider gently work them around the center of the oil guide and under the bearing. Do not force the pbrt into place, you may break the oil guide!

Once the pbrt is in place, hold it in place and do not let its weight rest on the oil guide. Screw the slide hammer into the pbrt - yes you need a second person to help with that - and bang it 2 or 3 times and the bearings is out.

Crankset Automotive tire Vehicle brake Bicycle part Rim


Product Camera lens Hood Automotive design Red


Pay attention to the direction both bearings come out. One has the writing side up and the other is writing side down. Take pics and you have a reference on your phone!

When you remove the seal under the input shaft bearing, pay attention to the way it comes out. Again, take pics.

When you install the bearings into the lower case, some people recommend putting them in the freezer for a while and to heat the case, making it easier for them to go in. I did neither and one bearing went in easy and the other one was a bit tighter but got both in with a 1/2" brass drift and 2lb hammer. No, not by the book but it worked.

In full disclosure, as I drove the mainshaft bearing in, I noticed a few very small aluminum shavings falling onto the oil guide. Obviously from the bearing scraping as it went in.
I was alarmed at first but the bearing went in smoothly so I kept going. I placed the drift at the 12,6,3,& then the 9 o'clock position and hit it each time with the 2 lb hammer. After a full circuit I blew out the area under the bearing and the oil guide, ensuring no debris got caught under the guide. After 2 circuits like that I switched to 2, 8, 5, and 11 o'clock for 2 circuits, blowing out any debris after each circuit. Then repeated that rotation until fully seated.

Once both bearings are fully seated you will notice a difference in the sound and the way it feels when you hit the drift, if you use this method.

Most won't agree with using a drift and will say to use a large socket or bearing driver. I didn't have either and autozone was closed so I took a calculated chance. I got lucky, at least I think I did, you might not.

Once both bearings were installed I locked the mainshaft bearing in with a series of deep punch marks, theres a terms for this but my old brain can't think of what it's called right now! Sure someone will chime in 馃榿

After that I rinsed the inside of the case with brake cleaner again and then blew it out for almost 10 minutes with an airhose and then covered it up with clean towels. Now it's waiting on me to rebuild the gearsets

This is by no means a "how to" post. It's just mainly showing other noobs what tools you can get from a-zone to help with the lower case bearings and a few recommendations / observations.

Also want thoughts on me using a brass drift and hammer to install the lower case bearings. Some will criticize, I get it. Some will say I'm ok doing it this way. Some will recommend other ways. All good.

Hopefully my experience, or lack there-of 馃槈, will encourage someone who thought they couldn't rebuild a tranny, to go try it like I am? Never know!

Lots of good people on DSO to help if they get stuck, that's for sure!

More to follow, unless no one's interested???

Hey, almost forgot, I n猫ed a critique on how I did the punch marks around the mainshaft bearing. How's this look? Deep enough? To deep? Or about right?
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Brokedick Millionaire
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You'll find out how well you "staked" in the CS bearings when you have to pull it out because you left the oil guide plate out. I've done it a few times. It is called gaining expieience.
 

Registered
4d EG manual rack/trans low n slow
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Nice write up. I'm working on the same transmission this week also.
If there's a Harbor Freight near you, they're a good source for the bearing and race driver, complete set is pretty cheap and works well.
 

Premium Member
Joined
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
CS bearing stake in looks good. I don't see an issue with the brass drift, though I might have used a slightly smaller hammer.
Thanks for chiming in Joe,
I guess if I'm going to talk about transmissions I should at least get the names of the parts right! I knew "main shaft" wasn't right but I was was too damn lazy to look up "counter shaft". 馃檲 Hey, it was a long weekend in the garage and I was friggin beat 馃榿

And I knew that - "staked". Friggin Alzheimers is kicking my ass. I couldn't remember it at the time to save my life. 馃槺

I know you weren't ragging me, but I'll do better next time I post. Should at least get names of parts right!

In the end, I'm glad I remembered to install the oil guide before I installed and staked the CS bearing. Man, I would have been so pissed if I had forgotten to install it. Wow, that would suck ass!

You'll find out how well you "staked" in the CS bearings when you have to pull it out because you left the oil guide plate out. I've done it a few times. It is called gaining expieience.
That my friend I hope I never have to learn the hard way. I highly doubt I'll ever rebuild another s20 but if I ever do, I know the odds of me forgetting about the oil guide increase with every one I do. I think I'll quit now and just say now that I've never done that! 馃榿.
"Staked" and "CS" bearing are burned into my brain now, well, at least until those brain cells die! 馃槈

Take it easy Bone and please let me know about the shift fork repair, when you have time???
 

Premium Member
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Nice write up. I'm working on the same transmission this week also.
If there's a Harbor Freight near you, they're a good source for the bearing and race driver, complete set is pretty cheap and works well.
Sounds good, I'll go get me a set. Thanks much for the info.

Are you doing all the bearings and synchros?
I'm starting on the gear sets later today. Doing all the bearings, syncros, sliders, and friction dampers. Going to gently persuade everything apart without a press. Luckily I have an extra transmission in case I need spare parts! 馃槈 will pass on what works and what doesn't. Good luck with yours!
 

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93 4d lx, z6,ported, port matched, compression bumped, balanced, manual swap
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Sheet of birch plywood and about a 6 inch drop and the stacks come right apart pretty much. I saw some Neanderthals banging them on concrete with nothing but a shop rag for padding, lol. I've since built my own set of pullers and press attachments to make things more precise, but the 1 ft square piece of plywood got me through the first few.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Cool,
Sheet of birch plywood and about a 6 inch drop and the stacks come right apart pretty much. I saw some Neanderthals banging them on concrete with nothing but a shop rag for padding, lol. I've since built my own set of pullers and press attachments to make things more precise, but the 1 ft square piece of plywood got me through the first few.
Cool, I have a nice 2x4 I was going to try. If it doesn't hold up will try a harder wood. I'll never use the floor and a rag like the guy in the YouTube video. 馃檲 hopefully I'll have both shafts apart here in a couple of hours. Will let you know how it works out...
 

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4d EG manual rack/trans low n slow
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I used a couple of wire spools(big) and 2 sheets of 3/4 for the top, Solid without worrying about damaging the metal.
I think I saw the same YouTube where the guy said the shaft is stronger than concrete, I don't agree with his thought process.
I'm doing only main shaft bearings, the rest looks brand new, and only reason for the bearings is the twit I got the tranny from didn't know that riding a 6 puck was dumb, and melted the pilot bearing and destroyed the plastic on the input side of the main shaft bearing.
 

Premium Member
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I used a couple of wire spools(big) and 2 sheets of 3/4 for the top, Solid without worrying about damaging the metal.
I think I saw the same YouTube where the guy said the shaft is stronger than concrete, I don't agree with his thought process.
I'm doing only main shaft bearings, the rest looks brand new, and only reason for the bearings is the twit I got the tranny from didn't know that riding a 6 puck was dumb, and melted the pilot bearing and destroyed the plastic on the input side of the main shaft bearing.
Cool idea on the wire spool and 3/4 Geo.

I tried just a 2 x 4 on a concrete floor and at first it didn't work after 3 or 4 good wacks. Then I recalled someone here, probably Bone, talking about putting parts in front of a heater to loosen them up. So after 15 minutes of regular floor space heater heat I wacked it twice the same way and shit started coming loose.

Not sure what a 6 puck is but I know that screwing up a two bearings is Not good. Hope you get it all back together and shifts like butta' 馃憤

I used a couple of wire spools(big) and 2 sheets of 3/4 for the top, Solid without worrying about damaging the metal.
I think I saw the same YouTube where the guy said the shaft is stronger than concrete, I don't agree with his thought process.
I'm doing only main shaft bearings, the rest looks brand new, and only reason for the bearings is the twit I got the tranny from didn't know that riding a 6 puck was dumb, and melted the pilot bearing and destroyed the plastic on the input side of the main shaft bearing.
Cool idea on the wire spool
Sounds good, I'll go get me a set. Thanks much for the info.

Are you doing all the bearings and synchros?
I'm starting on the gear sets later today. Doing all the bearings, syncros, sliders, and friction dampers. Going to gently persuade everything apart without a press. Luckily I have an extra transmission in case I need spare parts! 馃槈 will pass on what works and what doesn't. Good luck with yours!
and 3/4 Geo.

I tried just a 2 x 4 on a concrete floor and at first it didn't work after 3 or 4 good wacks. Then I recalled someone here, probably Bone, talking about putting parts in front of a heater to loosen them up. So after 15 minutes of regular floor space heater heat I wacked it twice the same way and shit started coming loose.

Not sure what a 6 puck is but I know that screwing up a two bearings is Not good. Hope you get it all back together and shifts like butta' 馃憤
Sounds good, I'll go get me a set. Thanks much for the info.

Are you doing all the bearings and synchros?
I'm starting on the gear sets later today. Doing all the bearings, syncros, sliders, and friction dampers. Going to gently persuade everything apart without a press. Luckily I have an extra transmission in case I need spare parts! 馃槈 will pass on what works and what doesn't. Good luck with yours!
Ok Gents, I'm turning on the "Bat Light" because I'm stuck like Chuck!

After disassembling my counter shaft(CS) I thoroughly cleaned everything and then lubricated each part and put it back together with all the original parts. I was just practicing, mainly to get the feel of a correctly installed friction damper. No problems figuring that out. After I got it back together the it felt good. The reverse gear slid up and down smoothly and the syncros engaged nicely. With the reverse gear In the neutral position I could feel resistance from the friction damper when I spun 1st gear.

After that exercise I started swapping out old parts with new ones.

Here's the first stage of putting together the CS. Everything on the blue towel is being used. From left to right the CS, needle bearing, 1st gear, new friction damper, new synchro with new spring, 1st/2nd synchro hub and reverse gear.

Product Textile Wood Sleeve Art


First thing on is the needle bearing
Musical instrument Tool Gas Cable Electric blue

Next is 1st gear
Gas Gear Electric blue Metal Auto part

Next is the new friction damper,
Light Automotive tire Gear Gas Office supplies

Next is the new synchro and spring
Gear Gas Composite material Household hardware Engineering

Next is the 1st/2nd hub which was rotated until it seated onto the 3 tangs on the top of the friction damper
Glasses Gear Bicycle part Auto part Composite material

Next is the reverse gear which is where I got stuck literally!
Gear Composite material Gas Wood Engineering

I stopped here and tried to move the reverse gear down to see if the synchro would rotate and engage, allowing the reverse gear to move all the way down. No such luck! The reverse gear will not slide down at all!
Gear Automotive tire Camera accessory Household hardware Auto part


I knew I shouldn't force it. It should slide down at this point right?
When I look at the synchro spring it's hitting and catching on the teeth inside the reverse gear. Almost like the springs too big.
I even put the original synchro and spring back on and the same thing happened. All I did was thoroughly clean the old synchro and spring, then oiled it and tried it but it wouldn't work this time. When I was practicing earlier it worked fine but I didn't take the old spring off when I was did it then. This time the spring came off when I cleaned and lubed it. After the first time failing to get the old synchro and spring to work, I tried looking for wear marks on the spring that I could use to line it up the way it was originally. There were worn areas but I couldn't tell exactly how to get it positioned like it was originally. My thoughts were that the spring had wear patterns that matched the inside teeth of the reverse gear and I just had to find the sweet spot. Over an hour trying dozens of different positions and it never worked. First practice run and It slid perfectly. Clean and lube It and It doesn't slide. WTF??? It shouldn't matter what the old synchro and spring does anyway since I'm using a new set, right.
So I'm stuck like Chuck until I figure this out.

I'm done for the day out in the garage and now wondering if I need to put the rest of the parts onto the CS in order to get the reverse gear to slide down? So now hoping someone can chime in on what may be going on.
Thanks in advance for any and all advice
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Something with the spring not looking right.
Does the slider engage the syncro off the shaft without the spring installed?
Hey Joe,
I'm a glutton for punishment! 馃檲 I got the engine finished up last week and now I'm fooling with the tranny. Thought I could do it and right out the gate shit goes south. 馃樀

Yes Sir, the reverse gear/slider and synchro play well together without the spring. I can slide the synchro inside the slider without the spring but add the spring and it's a dead stop.
Once the spring is installed the slider won't go past where you see it in the last photo. Even the old spring does the same thing now. It worked fine the first time I took it apart and put it back together with all old parts - when I did a practice run to make sure I could do it. All I did differently the second time was clean and lube everything. This time neither the old synchro/spring combo or the new combo will slide. Makes no sense to me. I'm hoping it's something stupid that I overlooked or did wrong.
Any ideas?
 

Brokedick Millionaire
Joined
40,997 Posts
Nice write up. I'm working on the same transmission this week also.
If there's a Harbor Freight near you, they're a good source for the bearing and race driver, complete set is pretty cheap and works well.
An old input/main shaft and outer bearing race work perfectly for ISB seal/bearings and CSB.

make sure the synchro is not wedged/stuck on the gear cone, A simple gasket scrapper will pry them apart. This is where HANDS ON teaching is invaluable.

I walked a former member FlatFourFun (VW Guy) into putting a parts trans back together, I'm in the USA he was in Pretoria South Africa.
 

BATSLOMAN GIVES NO FUCKS.
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Ok Gents, I'm turning on the "Bat Light" because I'm stuck like Chuck!

you rang?



I dont know shit about transmissions lol, I think you want to use the Bone light.

 
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Premium Member
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
you rang?



I dont know shit about transmissions lol, I think you want to use the Bone light.

Slo, you are one Cool Dude!
OK if I "borrow" the Bat and the Bone signal???

I don't know shit about transmissions either, I'm just faking it until I make it - work! 馃榿

I'll get the problem figured out. Think it's the jagged edges on the inside teeth of the reverse gears. The steel is so hard that none of the files I have will even begin to remove the burrs. I don't know what kind of steel honda uses for their gears but it's the hardest stuff I've ever tried to file!

Take er Easy Slo

so is a bone light similar to a flesh light?
You need help Evan! 馃槈 Just kidding Man! Is funny though馃榿
 
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