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BATSLOMAN GIVES NO FUCKS.
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aint bashing you at all lol, was giving props for his big brain skills
 

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If you do not have a leak down tester, next best thing to try, remove spark plugs, spray a bunch of carb cleaner down each spark plug to wash the cylinder walls, drain the oil and refill with cheap but fresh oil, spin the motor over by hand a few times to help prime the oil pump, and do a compression test. Have a battery charger that can do at least 10 amps hooked up. Get the battery fully charged up.

Spin the engine over for 5-10 seconds no plugs, let sit for a minute. Then start testing compression, with a 5 minute breather each cylinder. Note your numbers.

Then pour 1-3 ounces of oil down each plug. Find a way to measure it. Laundry soap cap, make a line, etc... Test compression as soon as possible after the oil goes in. Still give each cylinder 5 minutes to cool down a bit.

Your numbers should be higher if rings are part of the issue. Cleaning the walls prior to doing this removes chance of sticky rings, though will not solve truly gummed up rings.

The oil will cover the gap, and also help account for too large of a piston to wall clearance.
No matter what, the oil ed up compression test will result in higher numbers.


But if you get something like 30psi higher, might be worth yanking the engine apart and checking tolerances again.
 

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Discussion Starter · #44 ·
I'm still not convinced you have massive crankcase pressure, maybe just high blowby.

What are your compression values again? Have you done a cylinder leak down test?

What is the actual crankcase pressure? Its one thing to have higher crankcase gas flow, which is pretty typical if you've upped compression, its another thing entirely to build pressure. Have you put a pressure gauge in the dipstick tube to see what it is?
UPDATE:

I did a leakdown test and these are the results:
Cold:
Cyl 1 7%
Cyl 2 8%
Cyl 3 7.5%
Cyl 4 4.5%

Hot: (Engine oil >80C)
Cyl 1 7.5%
Cyl 2 8%
Cyl 3 5% bit less. 4.8%?
Cyl 4 7%

Outside temp was 30C

Pressure gauge on the dipstick just wiggled slightly. At throttle it even goes slightly below 0. Picture shows it above 0 but thats basically the 0 point of the gauge.

Throw a vacuum gauge on the intake at idle. Let’s see what vacuum you’re making.
Plenty of vacuum 22inHg. 24 after blipping the throttle and revs coming down


Here are the images:
Gauge Measuring instrument Gas Auto part Font

Speedometer Motor vehicle Gauge Automotive lighting Odometer

Speedometer Odometer Motor vehicle Light Gauge


So I think my rings are fine and its just the head giving me issues. My guess is a valve stem seals could've popped off (unlikely as I checked them and couldnt notice any of them at the top of the valve stem) or more likely that the valve guides are f*cked.

That doesnt explain how my cam seal, front main and rear main seal are done for tho... Even more so since the front main seal was pre installed into my ACL pump, excluding mistakes on my end.

Front and cam seal are fine to do but I'm not really wanting to take the tranny off again. That was a PITA last time.
 

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93 4d lx, z6,ported, port matched, compression bumped, balanced, manual swap
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Extend the pressure gauge up to the windshield, tuck it under a wiper, tape it to an angle you can see it and go rip it a few times, I bet under load is where it's building pressure, and likely coming from exhaust guides.
 

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Discussion Starter · #46 ·
Extend the pressure gauge up to the windshield, tuck it under a wiper, tape it to an angle you can see it and go rip it a few times, I bet under load is where it's building pressure, and likely coming from exhaust guides.
That's a negative. Doesnt surprise me with how I've ventilated the crankcase now. Gauge barely moves. Maybe 0.1 to 0.2psi MAX
Warmed the car up real good (oil 100C)
Ripped it to 7200RPM multiple times in 2nd 3rd and 4th, nothing. Gauge barely moved at all. I believe it had a very very very slight vacuum on decel aswell

EDIT: One note I'd like to add. Got off the throttle at 6500RPM, braked till 5000RPM and hit the throttle again and it smoked. Wouldnt the high rpm with closed TB cause a LOT of vacuum? Guessing it pulls it through the intake valves.

My bets are still on the valve guides being FUBAR'ed
 

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Discussion Starter · #48 ·
Yup, intake guides.
Mustve been what originally fubared the engine with oil consumption. I thought it was rings since one of the cylinders had a big score mark on cyl 4, but it was valve guides all along. So the new valve stem seals mustve held up for those first 3000km. Still odd that the cam and crank seals are leaking. But oh well. Replacing those with OEM honda ones. No more off brand stuff
 

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Discussion Starter · #49 ·
Lat update before the head comes off. Taking it to the shop again to confirm my suspicion. Probably having new guides installed (Supertech Bronze Guides)

Once its installed I will post an update again and another update after 3000km

I want to give a final answer to my issues so if anyone has the same problem as me they'll have an answer without hopping through 6500 forum posts haha
 

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Guides are a wear and tear item on these engines. I would almost be so bold to say do them every 75-100k miles / 45-60k kilometers if you are a longterm owner/operator of this vehicle.
 

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Discussion Starter · #51 ·
Guides are a wear and tear item on these engines. I would almost be so bold to say do them every 75-100k miles / 45-60k kilometers if you are a longterm owner/operator of this vehicle.
Did you mean 75-100k km and 45-60k miles? 100k miles is 160k km. Would be a bit overkill to do the guides and take the head off every 50k km or so wouldn't it?

But yeah they're getting replaced. The shop set me on the wrong path by telling me they're okay. Gotta learn to do those precise measurements myself so I'm not dependant on other peoples word
 

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93 4d lx, z6,ported, port matched, compression bumped, balanced, manual swap
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Its likely the shop thought they WERE good, or at least close enough they could be refinished, unfortunately the side loads on D valves are pretty extreme, just the rocker geometry, lobe lift and valve heights/angles all coming together to create a sensitive system, many machine shops don't realize that they need special attention and should be replaced instead of refinished. Explaining that to them might get you the labor done free and a more reliable place for honda head repairs in the future.
 

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Did you mean 75-100k km and 45-60k miles? 100k miles is 160k km. Would be a bit overkill to do the guides and take the head off every 50k km or so wouldn't it?

But yeah they're getting replaced. The shop set me on the wrong path by telling me they're okay. Gotta learn to do those precise measurements myself so I'm not dependant on other peoples word
Meant to say 100k miles or 130k kilometers. Backwards.
 

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Discussion Starter · #54 ·
Its likely the shop thought they WERE good, or at least close enough they could be refinished, unfortunately the side loads on D valves are pretty extreme, just the rocker geometry, lobe lift and valve heights/angles all coming together to create a sensitive system, many machine shops don't realize that they need special attention and should be replaced instead of refinished. Explaining that to them might get you the labor done free and a more reliable place for honda head repairs in the future.
Will do! Going there at the end of august since theyre closed and on vacation now. Do you happen to have any links or sources that state this aswell? Might make it better to explain
 

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Will do! Going there at the end of august since theyre closed and on vacation now. Do you happen to have any links or sources that state this aswell? Might make it better to explain
Only personal experience, and word of mouth from several different sources involved in D series head work. Showing them this thread will help. They will be able see see what's been done to diagnose the issue and all the second, third, and 4th opinions matching up.
 

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Discussion Starter · #56 ·
Update. Went to the shop. Basically they dont believe me. Told me to take off the head and bring it to them. Were gonna take the valves out together and measure the play. Didnt stop me from doing one valve myself and getting my dial gauge out. Did it per Hondas instructions and got 0.21mm of wiggle play. Service limit is 0.16mm. I know that there is a margin of error in my measurements but I think I got it damn close.

Lets see what the shop says tomorrow
 

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They don't believe what? That the valve guides might be worn? It's not like you're writing sci-fi novels, it's a mechanical issue, that must have a mechanical resolution.... There's only so many ways you get compression leaks.....
 

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Discussion Starter · #58 ·
They don't believe what? That the valve guides might be worn? It's not like you're writing sci-fi novels, it's a mechanical issue, that must have a mechanical resolution.... There's only so many ways you get compression leaks.....
Yeah the guy who did the work said he checked it and it must be something else. I explained to him that it only happens after vacuum or engine braking following half or more throttle, even with a disconnected catch can hose to the intake pipe. He also attaches 0 value to the leakdown test as "the oil on top of the piston will seal it and not show the correct leak percentage" even after I stated that I looked into the cylinder and the piston was dry...

I think its a classic denial
 

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Sounds like a few machine shops I've been burned at before😖 and it's why I work with the OCD, ADHD people at the machine shop I use now, their brains just won't let them do half-assed work, it just takes a little longer cause they get easily sidetracked sometimes, lol.
 

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93 Civic HB SI, 95 Civic HB CX
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Sounds like a few machine shops I've been burned at before😖 and it's why I work with the OCD, ADHD people at the machine shop I use now, their brains just won't let them do half-assed work, it just takes a little longer cause they get easily sidetracked sometimes, lol.
Dude, sidetracked happens to those guys!! Always something interesting going on haha. I feel I'm semi OCD (?), not ADHD, but sometimes... every so often... as an example:

you'll get a great smooth cut using a brand new drill bit on the drill press, and those spiral/helix still connected shavings that turn blue/purple/yellow as it cuts, yet they stay attached and get 30 feet long and practically whip you in the face.... you all know what I'm talking about lol

I end up staring at that happening more than what the part is doing, then before you realize it, the drill grabs the part and the vise off the work surface and starts whipping it around at 150rpm so you cant reach the switch to turn it off....

To the best of us :)
 
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