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crx
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
i was wondering why people never modify the piston so the larger Ls wrist pin can be used instead of using the D16 pin with a bushing. i i didnt notice this question come up on any of the articles and threads about the LS rods so im assuming they only use the bushings for a reason, but why??
 

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I would guess strength in the piston and balance of the piston.Just not too practical and too much work when you can just bush it.
 

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crx
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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
i thought the bushing only works on floating pin?? i want to run it with a P28 pistons. my dad has a friend with a realy reputable machine shop that has been doing performance work for over 20 years and i get a good price. i can probally get the pistons drilled and rods properly shaved for under $100.

it would only be drilling it out around 2mm
 

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ej1
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I'll call the engine builder tomorrow. Sometimes the oil rings are too close for it to be drilled out.
 

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crx
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Discussion Starter #5
i took a picture after i was looking at the pistons. there seems to be enough rom. the groove in the ringlad is at a downward angle to the hole. if you figure that buring it out 2 mm would add 1mm to each side i think the ringland wouldnt be affected.



 

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I have a machine shop lined up to re-bush the small end with steel bushings so I can use a press fit piston. Cost is kind of high but worth it IMO so I can have a good NA setup with strong rods
 

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ej1
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I have a machine shop lined up to re-bush the small end with steel bushings so I can use a press fit piston. Cost is kind of high but worth it IMO so I can have a good NA setup with strong rods
Is the cost over $20.00 a piston?
Can stock like pistons have snap ring groves cut in them by machine shops?

I called the engine shop today and they felt depending on the piston boring out the pin boss can destroy the in integrity of the piston. They said they have the ability.
I feel we need to know the best strength to cost compromise to go with when using pr4 rods and some stock replacement piston.
 

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crx
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Discussion Starter #8
How reliable is the bushing method?? Wouldn't the bushig slide if you try to press the wrist pin in??
 

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ej1
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I wish I knew where to get Bake82's steel bushings.
I went to my engine shop today and they've never herd of the full steel bushings.
I was trying to see if there was any way to run pressed pin pistons on b16a rods in a d15b so they don't go to waste but it's just not going to happen that way.
They told me $60 labor+ parts to convert 22mm wrist pin holes to 19mm to run floating wrist pins. I didn't get them to figure in the shaving of the rods price as well but it won't be much over $100. The stock gsr rods would be good for vitaras on a budget because they are .9mm longer.

The normal way to install pressed pin rods is to heat up the rod end first. So it's a good question as to if the steel bushing will slide or not.
 

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crx
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Discussion Starter #10
im realy tempted to just get the piston pin hole bored, maybe test the piston in a hydraulic press for a stress test??????
 

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crx
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Discussion Starter #12
i didnt know if it would affect it, thats why i asked.

plus i hear the bushing are hard to find and that they only work on aftermarket floating pin pistons.

would 2mm realy affect them??
 

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Racing - Engines - Gord Bush Performance - Etobicoke - Ontario

I spoke with Gord in detail last year and he had no issues doing steel sleeves. He also mentioned about using some nylon tabs on the pistons to help keep them in place as well. I can't remeber the exact description of these but said they are used on motorcyles and old VW bugs. to help keep the piston pins in the pistons.


Here is the e-mail I sent to him before Christmas.

Keep in mind these prices are Canadian. And although somewhat high to use these rods(same price as set of forged) they are WAY lighter for an NA application and way stronger than a stock D16 rod. I will more than likely be going this route in the future.




For what you describe , you are probably looking at around $350 plus tax ...Gord.



Hi Gord,



We spoke last year about a potential engine build I was looking at and you mentioned at that time you can re-bush and re-size rods.


Engine is a D16A6 from a Honda Civic.
Looking at using LS rods from a B18 in the motor.
They need to be shaved .022 from each side of the big end of the rod and then a bushing made to fit the small end to reduce the pin size from 21mm to 19mm.

I also need ARP rod bolts pressed in along with new pistons pressed into the LS rods once bushed. They will be a stock piston with press fit piston pin.

Can you please provide me a price to do this work?
 

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crx
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Discussion Starter #14
ill have to check with the guy i know at the machien shop and see what he says about modding the piston. if it can be done that would save a lot fo trouble.
 

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crx
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Discussion Starter #16
im going turbo thats why i was wonderign about using the LS rods. i was thinkign if i can get a set cheat and modify them i wont be limited to the stock Z6 rods i picked up that came with my Z6 pistons.


my car has PM7 pistons in it now but im going toss them out. im trying to keep it low budget. i can get teh rods modded cheap and pistons too from a reputable machine shop that a friend of my father owns, hes been in the game over 20 years. he did my head also. shaving the rods and having the piston modded so the 21mm pin would fit through it would be way easier than trying to track down a bushing.

but if it weakens the piston that would chaneg everything.

plus i liek the fact that you dont have to notch the block to use them.

im trying to do it all with as little downtime as possible.

im putting together a T25 setup and would like ot run a Evo 3 16G later on, from all i read about th LS rods 300hp would eb attainable down the line. .
 

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crx
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Discussion Starter #17
I have a machine shop lined up to re-bush the small end with steel bushings so I can use a press fit piston. Cost is kind of high but worth it IMO so I can have a good NA setup with strong rods
where would i find these steel bushings?????
 

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Sure it's not a bronze/bronze alloy bushing?

Crower used to(or may still do) sell bushings(tube stock); though they have to be modified to fit your application.

Strength is the biggest concern when modifying the piston. I'd be more comfortable modifying steel rods than aluminum pistons.
 

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crx
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Discussion Starter #19
although im just doing a budget turbo setup i definately want t throw in stronger rods. i just want something that can handle around 300hp at the crank, thats my long term goal.

ill be runnign a DSM T25 ar first. but since i have to change th epistons out (PM7) i would like to upgrade the rods, and put in ARP headstuds so i wont have to do it again when time comes to throw in a DSM 16G.
 

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Crower will make you any size bushing you want.They are bronze i believe.And like 9 bucks a peice.Can't use press fit pins with them.I was going to do this last year and decided not to.
 
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