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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
90 civic si hatch.
Getting my kyb excels and s techs in the mail end of the week. And an es master bushing set. Anything else I should look to replace while I'm down there and under the vehicle? Car has everything still from the factory trying to restore it and make it a decent dd
 

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Thanks ill get on it! I'm really excited to feel the difference with bushing and suspension upgrades
 

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Should I take pics or has this setup been beaten to death already? If it will help I will if not I'll leave it be
 

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Love the Civic
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Pics of work done are always appreciated here.
 

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BATSLOMAN GIVES NO FUCKS.
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don't forget ponies
 

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Do upper arms (they include balljoints) and lower balljoints if its been several years since they were last touched.

Id also go so far as to do OEM wheel bearings just to prevent the need from touching the suspension for many years to come.
 

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Everything everyone else has said plus a rack end bushing and a rack preload adjustment. Dont use the ES trailing arm bushings they bind get the oem ones. The megan front and rear upper arms/camber kit and rear toe kits are priced pretty well compared to replacing the remaining bushings and ball joints your es bushing kit doesnt include, plus you get the adjustablilty. The megan camber/toe kits are literally the hardrace camber/toe kits with a different sticker and their cheaper.
 

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Everything everyone else has said plus a rack end bushing and a rack preload adjustment. Dont use the ES trailing arm bushings they bind get the oem ones. The megan front and rear upper arms/camber kit and rear toe kits are priced pretty well compared to replacing the remaining bushings and ball joints your es bushing kit doesnt include, plus you get the adjustablilty. The megan camber/toe kits are literally the hardrace camber/toe kits with a different sticker and their cheaper.
the hardrace ones have harder rubber. Better.
 

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the hardrace ones have harder rubber. Better.
I compared my megan front camber kit and rear toe kit to my brothers hard race front camber and rear toe kit before i installed them for him and everything looked identical. My the dust boots on the balljoints on my megan front camber kit even say hard race on them. I never thought the bushings would be different, although the one thing i didn't thoroughly compare was the bushings as i i assumed they'd be the same so that's a bummer. How do you know they have different bushings and is their a significant difference?
 

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the world of supply and suppliers is always changing. back 8-9 years ago, hardrace was a noticeably better product than megan or other cheap brands.

Maybe nowadays megan upped their game, or hardrace lowered their game.

Either way, I see no reason to cheap out on alignment parts. My rule is if I cannot count on it to last 5 years or more of regular driving, it doesnt belong on my car.

that said, if you already bought them, spray some rust inhibitor on the threads of your kits, and check the tightness/torque of the bolts every other oil change. If you didnt use any sort of anti-seize, remove and do so, and reinstall.

EDIT I also see you recommend avoiding energy suspension style bushings for the rear trailing arms.

well... you are going against a fairly large and long-enduring group of users who use them. MASSIVE improvement over factory bushings, even against brand new OEM bushings. considering the bushing is not attached directly to the metal bush, the arm is allowed to go inward and outward as suspension geometry changes. a HUGE improvement in handling if you have decent springs and good tires to match. Generally, the binding is from having shitty shock bushings or sloppy control arm bushings.

Bind can also happen when the bushings in the toe-arms are shot. The one pair of arms no one ever thinks about, since they tend to be a nightmare to remove (corrosion, someone doing an alignment over torqued, etc..)
 

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the world of supply and suppliers is always changing. back 8-9 years ago, hardrace was a noticeably better product than megan or other cheap brands.

Maybe nowadays megan upped their game, or hardrace lowered their game.

Either way, I see no reason to cheap out on alignment parts. My rule is if I cannot count on it to last 5 years or more of regular driving, it doesnt belong on my car.

that said, if you already bought them, spray some rust inhibitor on the threads of your kits, and check the tightness/torque of the bolts every other oil change. If you didnt use any sort of anti-seize, remove and do so, and reinstall.
Im not worried about the actual arms/links or ball joints as i know their the same thing like i said the ball joints even say hardrace on them. Im just upset about the bushings if their different.
How did you find out they use different bushings?
 

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The oem or mugen/hard race/megan trailing arm bushings all use the same basic style. Spherical bearings also work well althought their not for DD.From research ive done No one really reports binding or snap oversteer happening after installing these types of bushings or bearings. Although ive found reports of binding after installing ES trailing arm bushings. Before ordering all new bushings for my car i did a bit of research. I dont remember all of it specifically right now but ill dig it up again. People also say that having to re use the center pin can cause it to rust and bind aswell. Ive also read the pin is a bit oval shaped and must be rounded if you dont want bind from that. Not to mention the constant lubrication they require(some have gone as far as drilling out the control arms and installing zerk fittings so they can grease them on a regular basis).

Heres one thing i found that tranzex posted about them
the rear arm travels in a arc, the rubber bushings have just enough give not to cause any binding. The ES bushing limit travel, therefore the suspension goes into bind, really screwing with the spring rates.........aka snap oversteer.
and another on team integra

The OEM RTAB is meant to allow movement in more directions than the ES bushings can provide, hence where the binding comes from.

That joint is meant to allow rotation in 3 axes as well as translation to small extent along the axis of the pin that goes through the center of the bushing and attaches to the chassis.

The ES bushings only allow rotation about the axis of the pin, and translation along the pin.

It is of little consequence if you only utilize a small amount of suspension travel though.

Now You won't catch me running them though.





All of these issues people seem to have just would keep me from recommending them to someone for a DD that will moderately be lowered. Just my opinion.
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
The oem or mugen/hard race/megan trailing arm bushings all use the same basic style. Spherical bearings also work well althought their not for DD.From research ive done No one really reports binding or snap oversteer happening after installing these types of bushings or bearings. Although ive found reports of binding after installing ES trailing arm bushings. Before ordering all new bushings for my car i did a bit of research. I dont remember all of it specifically right now but ill dig it up again. People also say that having to re use the center pin can cause it to rust and bind aswell. Ive also read the pin is a bit oval shaped and must be rounded if you dont want bind from that. Not to mention the constant lubrication they require(some have gone as far as drilling out the control arms and installing zerk fittings so they can grease them on a regular basis).

Heres one thing i found that tranzex posted about them
the rear arm travels in a arc, the rubber bushings have just enough give not to cause any binding. The ES bushing limit travel, therefore the suspension goes into bind, really screwing with the spring rates.........aka snap oversteer.
and another on team integra

The OEM RTAB is meant to allow movement in more directions than the ES bushings can provide, hence where the binding comes from.

That joint is meant to allow rotation in 3 axes as well as translation to small extent along the axis of the pin that goes through the center of the bushing and attaches to the chassis.

The ES bushings only allow rotation about the axis of the pin, and translation along the pin.

It is of little consequence if you only utilize a small amount of suspension travel though.

Now You won't catch me running them though.





All of these issues people seem to have just would keep me from recommending them to someone for a DD that will moderately be lowered. Just my opinion.

Edit bought the Moog trailing arm bushings didn't wanna cheap out and do it once and forget about it .also got the mood inner outter tie rod ends shop wouldn't do alighntment because they said they were shot




So as far as trailing arm bushing go I can just go OEM. That way the dogbone is included and I won't need to reuse existing one. The binding talk doesn't sound to fun that ks for all the input I'm really excited about the performance difference! This is a dd for me but where i live there are many hills and turns for fun spirited driving
 

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Not the greatest picture but with kyb and tein s tech the car sits about 1 finger gap lower in the back . dropped in at just about 1.5 inches just like they claims . cleaned it up pretty good and cleaned up the ride and handling so much feels like a whole new car. Will be doing the bushing soon when I have time to remove rear trailing arms and rest of the suspension pieces. And find someone with a press
 

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