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Discussion Starter #1
Hello and I need help! I just assembled my D16Y7 block with all OEM Y8 internals, and "King" OEM bearings. I had everything mic'd and hot tanked, and the machinist said being that everything is OEM, it should all bolt up and I could skip plastigage.

So, I installed the crankshaft and bearings and bolted it down first just to make sure there's no binding, and it spun freely with ease. I unbolted the crank cap, and installed my pistons and torque'd them to spec, reinstalled the crankshaft cap, and now I can't for the life of my get it to turn by hand.

I figured it'd still spin with some force by hand (with blue non-latex gloves for grip) and it did not. So I hand tightened the flywheel for leverage. Nothing!

Do I need to get a wrench big enough to turn it from the crank on the front of the engine? What size is that particular spot.

Is it always this difficult to turn? Could there be something I am overlooking?



Ask any questions if need be, and give any and all advice. I need to get this bitch in my car!!! Thanks all :fingersx:
 

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Unless your machinist made a mistake, you have some foreign particle in the bearings, or a mixed up a cap or put it on the wrong direction.

There should be a little resistance, but not enough that it would be difficult to turn with bare hands and the flywheel.

Don't force it or you are going to ruin a bearing.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
use assembly grease?
Yeah I used assembly lube, and a generous amount at that!

Now, when you say foreign particle, are we talking as small as a hair? Because that's plausible, I am doing this on my bedroom floor for comfort.

At first I think that it's just due to ring on wall friction, but my next option was to get a wrench and just turn the sucker where the oil pump flat spots are at the front of the engine. I am NOT excited to do plastigage. I was trying to avoid it, but I guess it's better to just do it right the first time.
It just means pulling everything back off/out.

Do do that, I don't need to remove my pistons do I? Can't I just set each one close to TDC and pull the crankshaft out?

All my bearings we're put in correctly, as I am very meticulous, and it's as straight forward as Legos. Being that there are "tangs".



But just a few more questions:

I have a Haynes Repair Manual for my car and both Y7/Y8, but I am not at all happy with descriptions and the how to factor. It's just like "put it all together and torque to spec" as any mechanic can tell me, just with bad pictures to go with.
I have a .pdf manual, but I didn't really use it for the assembly. I'll take a gander at that, but does anyone have a thread or sticky that contains a good write up of said assembly?

With the plastigage, what size/color am I going for? Because I noticed that I need .0002 and all they sell is .002. Now, granted I am not too good with numbers or math, is there something I need to know here? I couldn't find anything on the subject.

Oh, and one last thing. I haven't even started yet, but I can tell you that I'm sure getting the piston journal caps off is going to be a mother (insert profanity here). Any tips on doing so?

Thanks everyone!
 

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vw polo+austin mini
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i had the same problem using stock y7 crank and std king bearings my advice is get it checked by the machinest as i was stupid enough not to and ended up fucking my crank !
 

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vw polo+austin mini
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yes you are correct you wont need to remove your pistons from the bore the haynes manuals are not great with descriptions on what to do when it comes tho the bottm end and matching bearings !
 

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thrust bearings were installed correctly?

also when i rebuilt mine (Y7 block with Z6 crank. it was KINDA hard to turn by hand. harder to turn when the piston and rods were connected, but mine came out fine.

what kinda assemble lube did you use?
 

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pull the pistons back out. looking at the bearings during. bolt your main girdle back down and see how much resistance it takes to spin JUST the crank, should almost be able to blow on it and get it to move.

i'm guessing you have a rod bearing or 2 too tight, or a ring snapped during piston install.
 

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Are they the old pistons with new rings. If so is there carbon build up in the back of the ring grove which holds the rings out of the piston a bit, making them to tight in the bore.
 

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Are they the old pistons with new rings. If so is there carbon build up in the back of the ring grove which holds the rings out of the piston a bit, making them to tight in the bore.
That's the approach I just took.

The crank spins fine as long as you apply a little force to the pulley while rotating it. Done it with my bare hands.
 

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Yeah I used assembly lube, and a generous amount at that!

Now, when you say foreign particle, are we talking as small as a hair? Because that's plausible, I am doing this on my bedroom floor for comfort.

Yes.

At first I think that it's just due to ring on wall friction, but my next option was to get a wrench and just turn the sucker where the oil pump flat spots are at the front of the engine. I am NOT excited to do plastigage. I was trying to avoid it, but I guess it's better to just do it right the first time.
It just means pulling everything back off/out.

Unless your pistons were pretty difficult to push down into the bores, I kind of doubt it is piston ring friction. Pat mentions a good point about carbon buildup on used pistons though.

Do do that, I don't need to remove my pistons do I? Can't I just set each one close to TDC and pull the crankshaft out?

Correct.

All my bearings we're put in correctly, as I am very meticulous, and it's as straight forward as Legos. Being that there are "tangs".

You would have to be a buffoon to put the bearings in wrong, but some people are under the wrong impression that the tang on the cap goes opposite of the tang on the rod. Both tangs should be on the same side.

But just a few more questions:

I have a Haynes Repair Manual for my car and both Y7/Y8, but I am not at all happy with descriptions and the how to factor. It's just like "put it all together and torque to spec" as any mechanic can tell me, just with bad pictures to go with.
I have a .pdf manual, but I didn't really use it for the assembly. I'll take a gander at that, but does anyone have a thread or sticky that contains a good write up of said assembly?

With the plastigage, what size/color am I going for? Because I noticed that I need .0002 and all they sell is .002. Now, granted I am not too good with numbers or math, is there something I need to know here? I couldn't find anything on the subject.

You don't need 0.0002". The smallest clearance is the rod bearing clearance at ~ 0.0009". The green strips should suffice unless your rod bearing clearances are as tight as OEM. Use some red if that is the case.

Oh, and one last thing. I haven't even started yet, but I can tell you that I'm sure getting the piston journal caps off is going to be a mother (insert profanity here). Any tips on doing so?

I generally loosen the nuts on the rod bolts quite a bit, then tap on the nuts to break the cap loose.

Thanks everyone!
 

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you also said you were doing this in your bedroom so it might be a dry fit. when i install pistons i always dip them in fresh oil before i stick em in the cylinders.
 

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Always always always plastigauge! As for turning by hand with pistons not so much. Just the crank alone should spin freely with your hand. I use a 3/8" ratchet with the crank bolt in the end of the crank. It usually spins over 2-3 times just by itself just by flicking the ratchet hard and turns easily by hand. When you install the rods/pistons there will be resistance and turning it by hand will be very hard to do but it should turn smoothly with a ratchet.
 

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You just have too much ficton within the rotating assembly now to rotate by hand. Try using a breaker bar on the crank pulley bolt. Let me guess, the crankshft and rods were installed where 2 are at TDC? That's the hardest point from which to get the crank to rotate.

GL!
 

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every bottom end ive put together was able to be spun with just the pulley on the crank by hand shouldnt be tight at all just a little resistance from the rings
 

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You don't want to rotate your assembly too many times without oil pressure. Some assembly lube is very thin so it can wash out under oil pressure. I'm not saying you shouldn't rotate it to see if it spins freely. I'm saying you shouldn't rotate it because it looks cool, and call all of your buddies over to watch the pistons go up and down and up and down.

Once you have the Crankshaft installed and torqued to the proper specs. Make sure it will rotate freely with little to no force.

Install number one piston and torque the rod cap to the proper specs. Make sure it will rotate freely with a little force added from the first time.

Install number two piston and torque the rod cap. You see where I am going with this? Sometimes the initial start of the rotation is hard, but should get easier to rotate as you continue to rotate it. Do everything in steps and do the same thing everytime. That way you know which rod cap is giving you a problem. It sounds to me that you have two rod caps mixed up. Either take them and get a machinists to mic them, or try your luck and swap a few caps around. There should be some kind of mark on each rod and cap defining which ones go together. For example: Eagle marks one rod and cap with a 304. 304 will be on the rod and cap. Another rod and cap my have a 298 on the rod and cap. Look for a similar arrangement of letters or numbers. Engine parts are never mark with the, "hey man I freakin go here," marks. Just using a caliper tool will not tell you if a different cap makes the circle egg shaped.

Always remember to lube the shit out of everything. Your engine should look like two chicks wrestling covered in baby oil. It's an engine, it's supposed to have oil/lube everywhere. Worry about wiping the oil off of everything after you get it together. Do worry about your carpet though. LOL!
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I used Permatex Ultra Slick assembly lube, because I saw a YouTube video of a gentleman assembling a 500 horse B series using the same looking bottle, so I figured what the hell? haha

There may be some bias facts now. You see, I installed my pistons without my girdle mounted or torqued, because I was finding it very difficult to get to the piston caps and mount them and torque em' with that directly above them. The only torque wrench I possess is a 1/2 inch drive. So that may be the very first problem.

Before I had realized it was difficult to bolt my piston caps on, I had/I] the crankshaft torqued on, and it did spin very freely, with much ease and almost continued to spin after I pulled away.
Then I unbolted the girdle to torque my pistons.

When I installed my pistons, it was very hard at all to push them into their corresponding position on the crank. So I don't think I may have damaged a ring, but I could be mistaken, after all this is my first time.

Yes, #1 and #4 piston are probably at ~90% of their stroke towards TDC, and #2 & #3 are nearly bottom. So that may be another reason it is difficult to turn.

I have not tried using the crank bolt and breaker bar, but that is a very good idea. (Or maybe bad from some comments saying if it wont turn, don't force it)

I lubed the hell out of the bearings and caps. I generously oiled the pistons, rings, walls, and ring compressor as well. I laid out some thick black trash bags from work to contain my mess and not to ruin my carpet. But of course, for those who are concerned, I did get oil on my carpet lol.

And lastly, would it not be a good idea to just see if it takes much force to turn with a breaker bar? Like, if I feel like its taking more than 10 lbs to turn it just give up, tear down and recheck clearances? My thinking is, what is hard to turn with the bare hands may be unbelievably easy with a tool. We've all been there I'm sure, when we're wowed about not being able to turn something with fingers, but a little force with a wrench and it's butter.

Thanks for everyone advice! We're starting to get somewhere here! Keep it coming!:yes:
 

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are you sure you put the bearing shells in correctly? aligned the tangs properly?

did yuo torque everything down to the correct values in the correct order? it does matter.
 
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