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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I got some questions and since this is BY FAR the best site for d info, I'm know I'll get the right answers. Here goes...

I just bought a Skunk2 cam and cam gear for my d16y8 from a friend for a very good price. I intend on using them in my build, but I had some questions first before I go ahead with it.

As far as my current build goes, I have an extra head lying around that I plan on getting PP'd with some valve work and was going to throw in the cam and gear. I was wondering if it would be recommended to change the valve springs and retainers. I know that for some manufacturers like Crower they suggest upgrading the hardware for their stage2 cam, but I didn't see anything on the Skunk2 website that recommended the same... I also did a search of the forum here and couldn't really find an answer.

Upgrade valve train or will stock do? Suggestions?

The eventual goal is to rebuild a y8 using d16a6 pistons, a 2 layer head gasket to get the compression to around 10.6:1. I may even mill the head 0.020" to get it up to 11:1. I was even considering boring out to 76mm. Then throw the head with the PP work and Skunk2 cam and gear and then follow with a good ECU/Dyno tune.

In the meantime I was thinking of putting the head on with my current mods which include a CAI, Skunk2 intake manifold, DC 4-2-1 header, HF Magnaflow 2.25" cat, 2.5" mandrel exhaust, stage 1 clutch and 8.5lb flywheel. I think with the current setup and head I may be able to get 140 whp with a good tune. I'm hoping to get around 150-160 whp if not more with the rebuild. Sounds possible?

Thanks.
 

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besides the fact that you risk floating a valve if you use that cam with the stock valvetrain, cams are designed to be run with a specific valvetrain. in your case you should be using skunk2 springs. the retainers are a little less important, i will always choose a steel retainer for a street motor if at all possible.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Yeah I figured I better not cheap out and risk messing things up...

I'm probably not going to get a chance to really start the build until the spring but that just means I'll have more time to pick up all the other parts I'll need. Right now I'm really just in the process of getting everything together, but it's better to have a plan well ahead of time than half-ass things when I get started.
 

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you can keep your stock retainers and springs, if you dont plan on revving past 7200, anything above that you will have problems with valve float, because of the cheaper/ tension of the stock springs... like said above, retainers arent as important as the acual spring...
 

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what i would do :

keep the 3layer HG, just to be sure with the sealing properties

mill the head .030" or even 0.040" (1mm)

decreasing chamber size would help.. so go for that

make sure u get a good set of valvetrain (springs and ret.)

even if they say u can rev 7200 safely..

more comp + cam will always want a little more rpm's
plus the new lift and duration.. is more than what the stock springs lived with for a long time til the day u switch cams hehe , added insurance is always a good investment.. even if sumtimes u have to spend more.. it is still cheaper
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
[email protected] I took your suggestion and checked out compression numbers on the zealautowerks calculator.

At 0.03" mill: 11.14:1
Piston-to-deck height: -0.010"

At 0.04": 11.43:1
Piston-to-deck height: -0.020"

Compression is a little higher than I'm looking for, but my main concern is the piston-to-deck height...

I'm not 100% confident on this one but I thought that p-t-d height was the height remaining between the top of the piston at TDC and the block deck. Doesn't a negative height indicate that there will be contact between the pistion and the top of the combustion chamber (valves, plug)?

What is the minimum p-t-d height that I can safely work with?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
So I decided to take a look at the INSTALL link at the Skunk2 website (duh...) and found some info:

Key features for the Skunk2 Racing Stage I VTEC camshafts:

Compatible with factory valvetrain
•Compatible with aftermarket valvetrain
•Profiles designed to optimize driveability
•Retains stock idle characteristics
•Significant horsepower gains

Camshaft Specifications:

Intake:
Duration @ 1mm (0.040"): 225° Lift @ 0” Lash @ 0.448” (11.37mm)
Valve Lash: 0.007-0.009” Factory Specifications (cold)

Exhaust:
Duration @ 1mm (0.040"): 220° Lift @ 0” Lash @ 0.410” (10.41mm)
Valve Lash: 0.009-0.011” Factory Specifications (cold)

Ignition Timing Setting:
•12° (Factory specifications)

Despite the suggestion that I can use the stock valvetrain, I may still shell out a few extra dollars just to be on the safe side. No sense in half-assing things when I get started.
 

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[email protected] I took your suggestion and checked out compression numbers on the zealautowerks calculator.

At 0.03" mill: 11.14:1
Piston-to-deck height: -0.010"

At 0.04": 11.43:1
Piston-to-deck height: -0.020"

Compression is a little higher than I'm looking for, but my main concern is the piston-to-deck height...

I'm not 100% confident on this one but I thought that p-t-d height was the height remaining between the top of the piston at TDC and the block deck. Doesn't a negative height indicate that there will be contact between the pistion and the top of the combustion chamber (valves, plug)?

What is the minimum p-t-d height that I can safely work with?
if the comp is a little higher than u want.. then a .020" mill sounds best.. at half mm..

yeah the - number comes up i think what they do in that calc. is subtract what u milled from ur current d/h

however even with milling ur head, ur piston/ deck height is still the same.. so its not a problem.. ive gone up to 1.5mm milling.. thats roughly .060" with a 59300 it it was still fine.. i wont advice that but.. it was fine LOL
 

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ok i took the liberty of doing sum calc. for u (curly bandit) since i have time haha

for what u mentioned , here we have :

d16y8 block w pm6 and y8 head, on 3layer mls gasket.. no mill etc
10.56:1 comp with the pistons 0.020" below deck
^^^ technically that gives u a 0.048" distance from head to piston.. adding gasket thickness.. so i would mill .040" and still have it back at zero as if ur running no gasket

with the same things as above but adding a .020" mill from the head ur at:
11.11:1 (should be around 11.2 ish since u decrease chamber vol. when u mill)
^^ that would still have ur pistons .020" below deck.. and gasket thickness (3layer) so i should say its safe..

the above but with .030" mill from the head gives :
11.4:1 based on the calc. and this i think sounds like what u wana shoot for?

the deck height (piston below deck at .020" and gasket thickness ) hasnt changed

HTH
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
Hey [email protected] Thanks for the numbers.

Like I said in the first post, this forum is the best place for d-series info, and you've just proven why.

I should mention that although this car will probably remain my daily driver for the next few years, the reason I want to start building it up is because I'd like start doing some auto-x, circuit runs, time runs, etc. Eventually I plan to make the car a dedicated track car, but that won't be for another few years. Since I'll be building the head, I should at least consider replacing the valvetrain with minimum OEM parts. But for a daily driver/occasional track car, should I look at upgrading? Options?

Some manufacturers I've been looking at for springs and retainers, even valves:

Skunk2
Bisi
Crower
Crespo
JGE

Comments?

Hopefully I'll get started on the head this winter.
 

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for the vtec head, u cant really go wrong with Bisimoto or Crower..

with bisi gaining a bit of an upperhand, since his springs (one of them) can run with ur OEM retainer.. ive bin pounding on mine for more than a year @ 8300rpm plus hours of stuck in traffic idle.. and so far the oem retainer is doing its job..

myt save u cost on that part..

and as long as u run a 3layer hG u should be fine (some had good chance with the 2layer but i asume u dont want to take the gamble either?)

btw ur build is nearly close to Eyal951's build.. search on his build.. should let u pick up sum idea's he's running a .040" OS pm6 with a y8 head + crower 3 and i think .010" off the block (milled) and .020" off the head = 0.030" total<-- u could do that all in the head..

he track's his car too..
 

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Discussion Starter #15
No kidding!

Eyal 951's setup is very much what I would like to get done! If his civic is putting down 171 hp at the wheels, I'm very encouraged.

Thanks again for the help.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Hmm... His profile on WebRidesTv says 171hp and 144lbs torque...

...I see. So 171hp at the crank...

... a second look at the pics in his profile shows the dyno chart:
- 144 whp
- 119 trq

I guess that sounds more like it. Still, those are really impressive numbers for an N/A SOHC D16. Must be a blast to drive.
 

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i will give you a word of advice before you go buying springs and retainers...

if your sticking with a stage 1 cam, leave the valvetrain stock... because if you get a stiff as spring, and not a big cam, you will lose a little power because with a stiff spring and a small cam its not going to be effecient...

i did a stage 1 skunk 2 cam with the skunk 2 springs and retainers for a kid, and a vafc install we took it to the dyno and it made 3 hp more then before we put the cam in...

get a bigger cam if you want to run stiffer springs in my opinion
 
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