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so as some or most of you know, my freshly built, freshly tuned motor has pushed coolant just hours after the dyno session.

I was sent another tune with 4-5 degrees of timing removed. and I'm replacing this head gasket tomorrow. I will also be purchasing a straight edge to check both the head and block to see if they are true, as i did have a few moments of 215 degree temps show their ugly face. if all is well in that regard then in will go the new headgasket. new coolant, and i will be bleeding the system with all new coolant.

my plan of attack is as follows.

1. remove head, check with straight edge along with block.

2. if all is well install new OEM HG and torque to 60ft lb as per ARP specs. what i do is tighten my studs with an allen wrench until snug, then proceed to follow honda's sequence in 20/40/60ft lb increments.

3. bring the motor to normal operating temperature, pull the valve cover and torque studs to 65ft lb. I was going to just recheck for 60, but i feel like that will accomplish nothing.

4. take the car out throw it a beating, hopefully see no signs of headlift, and enjoy her from here on out.

5. if i fail again..be on the lookout for a for sale thread. or trade me your H22 swap.


anyone have any tips or tricks for me to avoid failure? my boy mentioned cooper spray but i'm trying to stay away from it.
 

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you are not supposed to snug the ARP's.. well maybe your set if fine if that s what it says, but for my Bseries its supposed to be snug then backed off 1/4 turn..

Copper Spray Ive heard its fine, just let it get tacky before assembly. But then others have said to do it like OEM.

but hopefully everything will work out.. good luck to ya.. infor updates
 

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Discussion Starter #3
you are not supposed to snug the ARP's.. well maybe your set if fine if that s what it says, but for my Bseries its supposed to be snug then backed off 1/4 turn..

Copper Spray Ive heard its fine, just let it get tacky before assembly. But then others have said to do it like OEM.

but hopefully everything will work out.. good luck to ya.. infor updates
the instructions that come with my set say to tighten by hand, i don't know to what degree they mean..if i do it by hand they don't bottom out and have plenty of turns left when i get on them with the allen key. i use the allen key until they bottom out. do they want me to not bottom them out??
 

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''i did have a few moments of 215 degree temps show their ugly face.''

-215 really isnt that bad to worry about warping. 215 is the early signs of starting to overheat.


''my boy mentioned cooper spray but i'm trying to stay away from it.''

-No copper spray when i did my headgasket with 12psi(6 months and going) You dont NEED copper spray. Some people swear by it, but do you need it?, no.

MAKE SURE you untorque your head in sequence. its possible to warp your head by not following this
 

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geesus christ, doing that simply never felt right to me.

if that was the issue i'm going to punch myself in the cock.
That wasnt your issue. I bottomed mine out. 12psi and still strong. Sounds like a personal preference.the nut will still torque the stud tight even if your bottomed out. I wouldnt crank on it after its bottomed out though, thats just common sense
 

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That wasnt your issue. I bottomed mine out. 12psi and still strong. Sounds like a personal preference.the nut will still torque the stud tight even if your bottomed out. I wouldnt crank on it after its bottomed out though, thats just common sense
ok so what do you suggest?? a part of me believes that my tune may have had too much timing, and another part of me believes my cooling system wasn't properly bled.

I have every intention of running the tune with less timing first..if it checks out i'm gonna go back to the initial tune with full timing.

also..how do you guys feel about the retorque with the motor hot???
 

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geesus christ, doing that simply never felt right to me.

if that was the issue i'm going to punch myself in the cock.
replace my head gasket 2 times. First time i didnt re tq after warm. And yea i dont like the finger tight stuff either it jsut doesnt feel right.
But i used and allen head and turn it with the short part, that way i couldnt tq it to much.
 

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replace my head gasket 2 times. First time i didnt re tq after warm. And yea i dont like the finger tight stuff either it jsut doesnt feel right.
But i used and allen head and turn it with the short part, that way i couldnt tq it to much.
so are you currently experiencing headlift? and did you do the hot tq the second time?
 

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wait wait wait. no, he is not experiencing head lift, unless he has some stupid crazy boost. he has detonation...(by he, i mean you)

get a tap, tap the holes/clean them out, then the arp studs should spin right to bottom by hand-no lube. You gotta tap them, cant just screw in. Don't listen to anything else-always tap & clean out holes. Like guy above said, use small end of allen wrench.

take head to machine shop. I'd take the cam out, just in case, the place I took my last head had to take the cam out. Take it in, don't cheap out.

Make it really clear you just want the head skimmed-just as little as it will take-if any-just super thin skimmed. make this clear...little as possible.

(did you have your block surfaced flat?) don't know what to tell you if you didn't-take it to machine shop and see if it's flat-with their straight edge-not yours, unless you got a no joke/for real one.

Use oem honda mls head gasket, torque to ARP specs, no copper, torque using lubed nuts.

I heat cycle the engine. wait till tomorrow morning, then re-torque. You shouldn't notice any movement, but torque anyways.

NEXT- Look up Dan's det can writeup. do it. no seriously, do it.

run engine on dyno, using det cans-det will sound like popcorn popping, or a little tic(s). search youtube for audio on it-its there. fix tune where its detonating. don't be a cheap ass.
 

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What I like to do is turn the block upside down and spray brake cleaner in the holes.

Then run a tap down the holes and repeat.

Tip the block up and look in the holes with a light and make sure they're clean.

You usually have to go tighten then loosen then tighten then loosen and you will slowly get the stud to the bottom where it doesnt go in any more.

Then take the studs out and clean it again.

Then dip the ends in motor oil and work them down with the allen key.

Then back off a quarter turn and watch the stud center in the hole.

It leans on the last 1/4 turn or so. I got pictures if you don't believe me.

When you are done, all the studs except for the VTEC stud should be within a couple threads with a straight edge.

That's how I reccomend that.

PS: Check that the deck is straight. There's a crappy chance of it being warped.
 

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OP, here's what happened to me:

I blew the head gasket back in January on a crappy, overly advanced tune from a crappy tuner. I was pushing coolant and overheating.

I proceeded to replace the head gasket and pistons (really to check for ring land damage) and scheduled a tune with a legitimate tuner, Jeff.

When I did the head gasket change, I made sure the block was flat and had the head pressure checked and resurfaced at a machine shop. I used the ARP's that I had and hand tightened them into the block, and torqued the nuts down 20/40/60 with the right lube.

During tuning, my engine started pushing coolant. Jeff lowered the timing but I was still pushing coolant. He then asked if I retorqued the head studs even though he said its not necessary. Since I hadn't we decided to check them right there. About 6 of them were loose by a quarter turn. He said that this may have been enough to allow the head to lift and pressurize the cooling system.

I didn't push any more coolant for the rest of the tuning. However, a couple days later, I started pushing coolant again. Jeff suggested that the loose head studs situation damaged the head gasket and that a fresh HG would rectify the problem.

About two weeks ago I replaced the HG again to fix the issue. I checked the block and head for flatness myself. This time I used the Allen wrench like xile6 suggested and tightened the studs a little bit into the block. I did the same 20/40/60 torque in the right sequence. I also vacuumed all the coolant out of the coolant passages and stud holes (duct tape, drinking straw, plus vacuum equals success.)

I did not retorque them and after 2 weeks, I have not pushed a single drop of coolant.
 

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so are you currently experiencing headlift? and did you do the hot tq the second time?
Had headlift with stock bolts.
Installed new hg with arp. Bolts lose there tq 2days later and flood cylinders with coolant. (my fault since i never checked tq after heat cycles.)

Redid hg and allen them in as said, then tq them. heat it up and tq them again.
Then check on them a few days later and tq holds the same.
Running 10psi i dont know my full timing but i pulled 12degs at redline and 10psi.

But yea as they said if your having alot of head lift with bolts that are tq down good then its either not a flat setup or bad tune.
 

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wait wait wait. no, he is not experiencing head lift, unless he has some stupid crazy boost. he has detonation...(by he, i mean you)

get a tap, tap the holes/clean them out, then the arp studs should spin right to bottom by hand-no lube. You gotta tap them, cant just screw in. Don't listen to anything else-always tap & clean out holes. Like guy above said, use small end of allen wrench.

take head to machine shop. I'd take the cam out, just in case, the place I took my last head had to take the cam out. Take it in, don't cheap out.

Make it really clear you just want the head skimmed-just as little as it will take-if any-just super thin skimmed. make this clear...little as possible.

(did you have your block surfaced flat?) don't know what to tell you if you didn't-take it to machine shop and see if it's flat-with their straight edge-not yours, unless you got a no joke/for real one.

Use oem honda mls head gasket, torque to ARP specs, no copper, torque using lubed nuts.

I heat cycle the engine. wait till tomorrow morning, then re-torque. You shouldn't notice any movement, but torque anyways.

NEXT- Look up Dan's det can writeup. do it. no seriously, do it.

run engine on dyno, using det cans-det will sound like popcorn popping, or a little tic(s). search youtube for audio on it-its there. fix tune where its detonating. don't be a cheap ass.
you're off the charts bro, my car was tuned by the best on the east coast. there's no way i'm detonating..my plugs look golden. i've actually never seen plugs look so good in my life.


anyway...i'll get back to this thread tomorrow morning..i'm getting my beer and boogie on. thanx in advance gentleman!
 

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you're off the charts bro, my car was tuned by the best on the east coast. there's no way i'm detonating..my plugs look golden. i've actually never seen plugs look so good in my life.
ok, "playah"

Since you've been tuned by "the best on the east coast", then you fucked up, and your block/head isn't flat. That, or, you forgot to torque a few head bolts-"playah"..


Wait a min-you said you were sent a tune with "4-5 degrees timing removed". are you tuned or remote tuned? seriously, Im trying to help...


just saying... since you're tuner is 100% on point...
 

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you're off the charts bro, my car was tuned by the best on the east coast. there's no way i'm detonating..my plugs look golden. i've actually never seen plugs look so good in my life.


anyway...i'll get back to this thread tomorrow morning..i'm getting my beer and boogie on. thanx in advance gentleman!
My plugs are like that too. Best looking plugs I've ever seen come out of a car.
 

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ok, "playah"

Since you've been tuned by "the best on the east coast", then you fucked up, and your block/head isn't flat. That, or, you forgot to torque a few head bolts-"playah"..


Wait a min-you said you were sent a tune with "4-5 degrees timing removed". are you tuned or remote tuned? seriously, Im trying to help...


just saying... since you're tuner is 100% on point...
He really is one of the best on the east coast. I can attest to the fact that at least with my situation (which is very similar to the OP's) the tune was spot on and the issue was due to my own fault. Perhaps I didn't torque the head studs correctly, it doesn't matter now since the problem was fixed and the tune didn't need to be changed...playah.

Jeff sent the OP the original tune with 4-5 degrees removed from the boost tables. Seeing as the OP's tune was far enough below MBT (as measured on the dyno) lowering the timing would ensure that the engine was not detonating. Even without detonating, coolant was being pushed.

So, since the tune can most assuredly be ruled out and since the head gasket was most likely compromised, the best course of action right now would be to change the HG and make sure the mating surfaces are flat.

OP, I hope you don't mind me somewhat answering for you. Jeff and I have spoken about your issues on numerous occasions.
 
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