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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Heres my setup:
d16z6 vitara/ eagle build
d15 head vtec
bisimoto 2.4 turbo cam
greddy 15g w/ 2.5in back
Neptune rtp
huckstorf 690cc injectors
blox IM


Here are snapshot of right before Vtec engages (4800rpm)
And right after vtec engages (5000rpm)

It seems like my low cam ignition map is way off

by the way the EBC is set for about 14psi




 

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Does the difference in the table ignition and the actuall ignition mean my cam gear is for adavance or retard?


What the hell dose this mean? Cam timing is cam timing and can be changed with the cam gear. Ignition timing is ignition timing and can be changed with the ignition table or rotating the distributor.

Cam timing changed effect ignition timing due to rotating the cam also offsets the distributor shaft. Ignition timing changes have no effect on cam timing.

Who is misimoto? Stop what your doing find a good local tuner in your area.
 
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Classic Man
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actual ignition is your actual ignition value that the distributor should be synched to. its the "final value" if you will.

the other timing value is whats in the map.

seems like more timing that i would put into a basemap...
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Ok i guess what I was looking for was the difference in them, I realize my initial post makes it seem like im completely lost.

I apologize for waisting your time "FUSE"

I know that im capable of tuning the car and Im from Milwaukee, WI. Nowhere in this region after 3 months of research have I found someone who tunes neptune.

Im trying to make the best of what I have.

What concerned me was before vtec the car hit about 13psi and the timing was set at 15.50 degrees. For peak boost my understanding is the timing should be 20-25 degrees obviously depending on your setup.
 

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I see the TPS calibration utility hasn't been used.

Max ignition timing is going to depend on a LOT of factors.

I tend to think that only 5 degrees less total timing than I run on my NA turd for a boosted D is not a good idea...
 

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this, makes me very concerned for the life of this motor.
I second that, at peak boost? No. The first column yes... I just tuned a B series which will take way more advance than a D to 11 psi on a 50 trim the other night, and its peak timing was 22 at 11.9 PSI. Low cam ignition is always lower than high cam, due to the cam profile.

At 13 PSI your timing should be no more than 18 degrees advanced, that is not including a base timing at the distributor, which you need a timing light to help with that.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I appreciate any advice you guys have.


I am really just trying to learn and im smart enough to not go an make changes. Just gathering information as I go here.


The car gets like 20 mpg tops so I wanted to start there. I have the sensor and innovative setup minus the logger that reads it so once i figure out how to interface with the wideband I will be doing subtle and cautious incremental changes.
 

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Since you are running Neptune, just log A/F from the LC-1 via serial data.

Edit-->Preferences-->Logging tab-->Wideband Input-->Direct Serial Logging.

You will have to setup your comm ports in Neptune as well.

Connect Demon to your PC, connect LC-1 to your PC, start emulator, start datalogging, start direct serial.

The last part is important. I hadn't messed with Neptune for a long time, and couldn't figure out why direct serial logging was not working. Gotta remember to start direct serial.

lol
 

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This is what I would do. I use neptune the values in the timing table are just values they are different in each program from what I have noticed it looks like the values in neptune are always higher then that of crome values. I have never really paid attention to what is said on line about max timing. I live in high altitude so it usually never applies to me.

Start with the p28 base. lock timing to 16 in neptune set your distributor to 16 set your maps with your injector sizing, map sizing, add boost tables ext. Set fuel for 120% per psi 1.4 down per psi (this is probably over kill on a vitara motor for sure). Street tune fuel out of boost then hit the dyno tune everything else. With your motor the base map is going to be far form ideal.

One the dyno turn off vtec tune focus of torque then set vtec low around 4000rpm tune focus on torque. Experiment with lower and higher ignition timing see what happens. You should find in time that adding more timing either make no more torque or knocks. Over lay the best vtec off and the vtec on runs where they cross is going to be the best point to set vtec.

Focusing on numbers in a table with out any corresponding data on what the #s do is almost useless if you just do what the dyno tells you to do and your wide band you will be set don't over think it.

You never said what fuel type? If your just planing on street tuning the best you can do is get afr set up and say out of knock. Build a det can, read plugs, some of the dyno simulators are usable if all conditions are repeated the same (flat road, no tire spin, ext).

If you have an adjustable cam gear you just opened up another box of worms. Its almost trial and error.

Ya your first impression sucked.:pinch:
 

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Discussion Starter #11
This is what I would do. I use neptune the values in the timing table are just values they are different in each program from what I have noticed it looks like the values in neptune are always higher then that of crome values. I have never really paid attention to what is said on line about max timing. I live in high altitude so it usually never applies to me.

Start with the p28 base. lock timing to 16 in neptune set your distributor to 16 set your maps with your injector sizing, map sizing, add boost tables ext. Set fuel for 120% per psi 1.4 down per psi (this is probably over kill on a vitara motor for sure). Street tune fuel out of boost then hit the dyno tune everything else. With your motor the base map is going to be far form ideal.

One the dyno turn off vtec tune focus of torque then set vtec low around 4000rpm tune focus on torque. Experiment with lower and higher ignition timing see what happens. You should find in time that adding more timing either make no more torque or knocks. Over lay the best vtec off and the vtec on runs where they cross is going to be the best point to set vtec.

Focusing on numbers in a table with out any corresponding data on what the #s do is almost useless if you just do what the dyno tells you to do and your wide band you will be set don't over think it.

You never said what fuel type? If your just planing on street tuning the best you can do is get afr set up and say out of knock. Build a det can, read plugs, some of the dyno simulators are usable if all conditions are repeated the same (flat road, no tire spin, ext).

If you have an adjustable cam gear you just opened up another box of worms. Its almost trial and error.

Ya your first impression sucked.:pinch:



Awesome advice, i give the utmost respect to anyone willing to share their knowledge. Especially to some cliche sounding Noob like me!!!:)

Now to get this failure of a process started, i forgot i can do direct serial logging in neptune. How can I get this ancient looking connector to usb is the question.

So I have the Innovative 3738 in the car right now.


 

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Discussion Starter #14
I see the TPS calibration utility hasn't been used.

Max ignition timing is going to depend on a LOT of factors.

I tend to think that only 5 degrees less total timing than I run on my NA turd for a boosted D is not a good idea...

I have used the calibrate tps function in Neptune but it looks like my tps voltage varies slightly from when the car is running and not. I wonder if this will cause issues with the tune??
 

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Classic Man
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set it to 0% with the car running, since thats when its gonna matter

its because the alternator puts out 14v when the car runs, and only 12v from battery during KOEO
 
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