Honda D Series Forum banner

1 - 20 of 42 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
764 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I have been rebuilding turbos for some time. Mostly as a hobby or for friends and occasionally for other people. I have been surprised after doing a couple of these that a lot of the ones I have done are from failed rebuilds so I thought I would take the time and make a detailed thread on how and what to do.

This is going to be a long thread so please wait till I am finished before posting as will take a couple posts to complete. There is 32 pictures in total to give you an idea.

1: It is a good idea to go over what can be used and what can not. Here is a picture of some things that can go wrong. It is best in this situation to take what is usable and discard the rest. Also be careful with what you use.



Here is photo of the some good sets to use. Usually if there is any damage to the turbine or compressor you have to discard. If it is light enough you can still use them though. No broken corners or cracks though.



2: Here is some tools I will be using. Not all of them are necessary but if you have them they are the best to use. List goes: 0-1" micrometer, .2-1.2" inside micrometer, 0-6" dial calipers, C clip pliers, .5"-.8" inside bore micrmoeter (very accurate), set of picks, and you will also need a set of standard and metric wrenches (not pictured).




3: This is the turbo I will be covering. I am doing it for a ryan89crx and it is T3T4 stage 1 turbine 50 trim compressor with .48 hotside and .60 cold. I will be using it for only the disassembly.



4. First you want to remove the turbine housing. It is secured with 6 bolts and 2 clamps. I used a 13mm wrench on these but not all T3 turbos have the same size bolt. You will have to check yours for the right size. Sometimes the bearing housing hangs in the turbine housing and it can be pain. You really need to take your time here. If you do not remove the turbine housing evenly it will interfere with the turbine and bend its fins messing up the turbo before you start. Sometimes it is necessary to use a hammer to break it apart and you should lightly tap the turbine housing while having the rest of the turbo secured (I do this by placing the turbo in a vise). Its best to use a soft face hammer and tap evenly around the turbo. Also check the housing itself to be 100% sure it is coming out evenly. If it is being a rediculous pain heat the turbine housing up a little (but be careful when it comes off).



Its a good idea once you have it removed to place the bolts and bands back onto the housing. It will keep everything together and in one place. Like so:

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
764 Posts
Discussion Starter #2 (Edited)
NOTE: It is very important not to attempt taking the compressor cover off till after you have the turbine housing removed. Sometimes if you are fighting the turbine side you can lose control over it and it will fall over. If you have the compressor cover off it will most likely mess the compressor up. The compressor is made of aluminum and will bedn extremely easy. Handle and store it with care.

5: Once you have the turbine housing off then you can remove the 6 bolts that hold the compressor cover on. They also secure clamps. Some use 2 clamps and some use 3. This one used 3.



6: Then you can remove the turbine and compressor. Sometimes this can be tricky as not all turbines actually have a bolt head to get a wrench onto. I have seen some other DIY threads show a person using vise grips. This is a bad idea and they will rape the turbine. I go through my box end wrenches and find one that gets enough grip to take the turbine side nut off. I have never had to use a vise grips. That does not mean someday I will not have too. Vise grips should be a last ditch effort only.

Also check the turbine nut and see which way it spins off. Some have reverse threads and you can bend or break the turbine shaft so be careful.



Once you get the nut off you can lightly tap the shaft on the compressor side with a soft faced hammer if you can not pull the turbine out from the hotside. Be careful not to hit anything or bend anything.



7: Once you have the turbine out and compressor out you can remove the compressor backing plate. There are 4 bolts that attachs it to the bearing housing. On this turbo it took 8mm wrench but it will vary from turbo to turbo.



8: Slowly ease the backing plate from bearing housing. The flinger is inside and depending on what kit you buy it may not be included. There is very rarely any wear to this so that is not a major issue. Once you pull the backing plate off pull the flinger out of the backing plate if it has not already fallen off. Set it aside as well as the thrust bearing.



Take the bolts and put them back into the backing plate. Then set the compressor on top of it and place the compressor cover over it. Use the 6 bolts and either 2 or 3 clamps (whichever you have) and secure the compressor cover to the backing plate. Tape the inlets so that nothing can get inside and mess anything up. Luckily I had caps to protect it.

 
  • Like
Reactions: WORPsol

·
Registered
Joined
·
903 Posts
My AiResearch/Garrett had the other kind of Thrust washer/bearing. My rebuild kit came with both. Can I use that style instead? Is there a gain with one over the other?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
764 Posts
Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
9: There is also a pan like device on the turbine side that is designed to catch oil blow by. It is a good ides to clean it up at this time and store it as well as the turbine. I place the flinger and nut back on the turbine and wrap the turbine up with bublle wrap and place it in a box. Also store the thrust bearing unless you have a replacement. (I don't have a picture of this as it should be self explanatory).

10: Now all you should have left is the bearing housing. First thing you need to do is remove the small ruuber gasket on the compressor side. Once you have it removed then you can remove the bearings. The bearings are held in the bores by 4 C Clips. Depending on their condition sometimes I will only remove the outer two as they see no wear. I use a set of C Clip pliers for this but they can be expensive and hard to find. If you can not find some C Clip pliers a Pick will work as well. Be careful though not to scratch the bore or damage anything. Once you have the C clip out remove the bearing. I do this with a pick from the inside of the bearing.



Flip it to other side and remove the C clip here as well and remove the bearing just as you did on the other side.



Thats it for disassembly. Basically wrap everything up and store it unless you are going to proceed to rebuilding the turbo.



Note: Now would be a good time to look at your bearings. There should be light were but no scratches, gouges, discoloration (other then a light oil stain).

Here is a photo of a several bearings. The ones on the left are rough. Far right are new. Next to the new ones are a set of used but very well maintained bearings. Next to the ones on the left is one that is a great example of one being Fu4ked!



Also look at the turbine shaft for the same. Also this is an excellent time to take some KEY measurements. Most people overlook this and throw it back together thinking it will be fine. This is a bad idea and it will most likely not last. Here is what you do:

A1: First you measure the shaft diameter of the turbine where the bearings ride. Make sure you clean the turbine of any oil and make sure the tool contact face is clean as well. A small piece of lint will throw this off. It should read around .3995" up to .4000". This is in ten thousandeths and no dial caliper will read this accurate. Micrometers will. If your shaft is clean of gouges and scratches then check it with a dial caliper if you don't have a micrometer and if it is good then move on. If not take it to someone that can make the measurements for you.

Ryans read .3996" which is on the low side but still OK. If it below .3995" then you can not use it.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
764 Posts
Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
1B: Next you want to check the bearing bore diameter. This will cause you some problems if you don't have the right tool. I have a set of Browne and Sharpe intenal 3 anvil bore micrometers just for this. They are accurate to the thickness of 1/40th the thickness of a sheet of paper. This is necessary. However if you can not justify the cost of them for a turbo rebuild so best just take it to someone that has a set. The measurement here is supposed to be .6220"-.6225". It has to within this diameter for the turbine to hold up. It is extremely important. This housing was at .6222" on both bearing bores which is great.



1C: It is also a good idea to measure your bearings and make sure the set will work. You are allowed .0015" on the inside diameter and .0035" on outside diameter. Or the bearing bore is allowed to be .0035" larger then then the outside of the bearing. The inside diameter is allowed to .0015" larger then shaft diameter.





The bearing inside diameter is .4005" and the outside diameter is .6190". So what we have .0009" inside diameter clearance and .0032" outside diameter clearance. This is very good!

Note: For whatever reason the bearing bore is out of spec it is best to have the bores bored out. You can get bearings in .0050" and .0100" at very little cost and then you will have a factory spec turbo.
 
  • Like
Reactions: cyanide

·
Registered
Joined
·
764 Posts
Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
OK sorry for the delay. The assembly is very much like the disassembly in reverse. Take your time and be careful with what you do. Each step is important. Also some of these pictures will be repeats but they cover the material..


Start with cleaning the inside of the bearing housing. I like to use some WD 40 just break stuff out that may have found its way in. Once you have done this lube the journal bearings with some oil. Once you have the journals adequately lubed it does not take much) take the journal beaing and lube it as well. Once you have the bearing lubed it is time to put in in the housing.

Note: There are 4 C clips inside a T3 or T3T4. I prefer to remove only the outer two as it can be a pain to get the inside ones out as well as easy to damage the bearing bores. If you examine them and they need replaced then replace them but this has been only the case once. This specific instance it was obvious the guy never changed his oil.



Make sure you when you install the C Clip that you have it in its proper groove and perpendicualr to the bore. They can sometimes be tricky so take your time and be patient.



Once you have the bearings in replace the backing plate seal on the cold side of the bearing housing. It is a 4 sided rubber seal and it fits in a groove and is absolutely neccessary.

(need to get a picture of this)......

Once you have the seal in its time to mount the oil flinger and thrust bearing. Before doing so you will need to be sure that the old oil seal is removed and you will need to replace it with the new one. Take your time!!! This is very important and you can not bend the seal excessively. It can not have any kinks or stretching. I use a pick to help get it started then slide it slowly on. Also be sure the groove it fits in is clean and free of debris. This needs no oil.

Note this is a dynamic oil seal.



To mount the thrust bearing you will need to slide the flinger into the thrust bearing and place it over the studs that is in the bearing housing so that it will line up. It has to go in a specifc way. There is a top and a bottom. It will only fit one way.

 
  • Like
Reactions: Atreidies

·
Registered
Joined
·
764 Posts
Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
Notice that in the above picture it has a sprocket looking device in the compressor backing plate. This is to hold the thrust bearing in place and is an absolute must to have. Sometimes they can be a pain but take your time and be sure it is inserted correctly.

Once you have the Thrust bearing and flinger sitting in their place you can re attach the backing plate. You will need to leave the bearing housing cold side facing up and then place the backing plate over the flinger. Do this carefully as the thrust bearing cage (sprocket) will fall out. Also be sure that it is in its proper place when it closes. If the thrust bearing comes loose then you will have a catastrophe of epic proportions!!!

Note: The backing plate can be a pain to get on sometimes. Sometimes you may have to lightly tap on the backing plate to get it on. Be careful as you can interfer with the dynamic seal and it can easily be ruined. If you a try and it will not go in then set the backing plate aside and center the oil seal so that it is not hanging off the flinger in any direction more then another. Then retry the backing plate. This could take a couple minutes but take your time and do it right!!!

(sorry I need a picture for this as well)

Once you have the backing plate on align the holes and insert the four bolts and tighten. You can use some blue loktie but it is not necesssary. Be easy when torqueing these bolts down as they are easy to strip the backing plate out. Once you have the Backing plate bolted on take the turbine and place its oil seal on. Be careful here as well and be sure the groove is clean of any debris.

Should look like this:



Once you have the oil seal in place then you will need to replace the pan that catches oil blow by. Just slide it over the shaft.

Note: Do not be lazy and not clean the pan out. Take the time and clean it all the way back to normal. A piece of coked up oil (which is what this catches from blow by) is like a piece of sand. It will wreck motor bearings and the turbo bearings. This is why it is a very GOOD idea to run a water cooled turbo. If you do not have a water cooled turbo be sure to allow the turbo proper cool down time.



Once you have the pan placed on the turbine shaft you can insert the threaded end of the shaft through the hotside and through the bearings and flinger. The oil seal on the turbine can be pain as well so you may have to lightly tap it to get it to seat. Once it seats then slide the compressor on. Once you put the compressor you then will need to use some BLUE Loktite on the turbine shaft nut. If you do not have Blue Loktite finger nail polish will work as well. Once you have an ample amount then proceed to torque the nut on the shaft. t is the opposite of removal and remember some may have reverse threads. I have only seen one spec for the shaft and that is 15 ft lbs.

Note: It is a very good idea to have the turbine cleaned and balanced. Some people say you can scribe the shaft, compressor and nut from the factory and go without the balance but I would not tempt it unless everything was in really good shape when I took it apart. If you are doing a rebuild and would like to have the shaft balanced contact me and I will help you out. It is worth every cent. Imagine how out of balance .01 grams will be at 100,000Rpm's.....



This is what it should look like at this point.




 
  • Like
Reactions: a5hatch

·
Registered
Joined
·
764 Posts
Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
From here on out it is very simple and straight forward. There is only one part that you will need to cautious with and that is compressor cover seal. You would be surprised how easy it is for someone to forget this or lose it. I wold always use a fresh seal here as well. Most kits come with a rubber one which is fine. Just make sure that when you put it on that it does not move or anything. They can sometimes roll up on you which will cause problems.

Once you have the compressor seal then you can attach the compressor cover. This side will rotate freely so its position is not a major concern. It goes on the way it came of. Use all 6 bolts and be sure you have the proper clamps. They are necessary.



Once you have the compressor cover back on it will be time for the exhaust side. This is a bit more tricky. You will want to know the location of the oil inlet as well as the drain back. It is necessary for a proper oil feed and oil return. On journal bearing turbos it is best not to run restrictor. The oil is what actually cools them down so you will want a steady fresh supply and at idle you can be starving them of the cooling properties the turbo needs. Not so much at start up but after you take that guy down in the 240SX at the stoplight and you are idling at the next can really hurt your turbo.

Place the exhaust housing over the turbine (be careful not to hit the turbine) and place the clamps on. Some people use Loktite but I like to tighten them down personally. I have never had a bolt back out on me.

Here is the finished product:



Here is a good picture of what the turibine assemblies look like when i get them back from being balanced. They look new to say the least.



I know this only covers the T3T4 but I can help you with others as well. They are pretty compatible when you look at them. The TD05H is the easiest to rebuild in my opinion.

If you ever have any questions contact me and I will be very happy to help you out.
 

·
Registered
92 civic
Joined
·
20 Posts
sick thread wish i knew about it before i took my turbo apart cause i snapped the shaft lol didnt even think about reverse thread :( (i just necked myself) lol anyways thank god it was a cheap ebay turbo lol
 

·
Registered
ej8
Joined
·
6,365 Posts
100% great post ill be watching this. And if you can it would ne nice to get a list or links to finding the rebuild spec of different turbos. Also ever take apart an ebay turbo? Are they really that far out of spec and made of cheap internals?

Also + rep
 

·
Registered
same
Joined
·
1,881 Posts
Great Info so far! cant wait to see how this goes
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
903 Posts
100% great post ill be watching this. And if you can it would ne nice to get a list or links to finding the rebuild spec of different turbos. Also ever take apart an ebay turbo? Are they really that far out of spec and made of cheap internals?

Also + rep
My buddy took a CX Racing apart to check it out. He also rebuilds them. He said it was comparable to the Garrett in quality and tolerances. He said he was very impressed.

Just to note. He did this with 2 or 3 of theres. All the same quality.
 

·
Registered
ej8
Joined
·
6,365 Posts
My buddy took a CX Racing apart to check it out. He also rebuilds them. He said it was comparable to the Garrett in quality and tolerances. He said he was very impressed.
Good to know because thats the turbo i got
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
764 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
The chinese stuff is not so badly spec'd. Its more of the bearings, oil seals, and especially the thrust bearing that are lacking. I would venture that they do not have a quality checkpoint and just pump out quanity instead. The oil seals are crap and really need done with quality pieces.

At the RPM's these things create they really have to be right.

I firmly believe that you can take any chinese turbo that has usable parts and make a turbo that will last from it. You just need to balance and rebuild it properly with quality parts.
 
1 - 20 of 42 Posts
Top