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Discussion Starter #1
Just wondering if anyone have any experience with running milled heads and high lift cam with vitara pistons? I dont have the head or the cam available atm, to make measurements, and I have to decide how much I want to shave it now. I'm going with my old short block wich consists of custom rods and vitaras, and I'm aiming for a wide powerband, so I've already chosen a relatively small turbo (gt28rs), and I have a bisi 2.4 turbo cam that I'm going to use. I'm not going to make a long post about it, but I have made my decision on parts for a reason, and all there's left is to decide how much I'll be milling the head. I'm hoping to be able to mill about 6 thousands which will put me around 9.4:1, but I'm unsure if I have to take out material from the valve pockets... I have already tested with a crower stg2 cam and the stock head, which went fine. I didnt clay it, but I did not have any contact even though I adjusted my cam gear 4 degrees left and right.

Have anyone clayed their vitara setup to check how the calves hit the valve pockets on the vitara's? Any high lift, milled head, vitara setups out there with experrience to share?

I know its not the right way to build an engine from guesstimates, but I'm kind of in a pinch now, so any help is appreciated :)

tia
 

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1.8 nawz powa
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take it off the head not the block, the pistons right now should be .002 below the deck, you can take out around 0.030 which will get you to about 9.1:1
 

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Classic Man
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well i ran my colt cam with somewhere around .500 lift give or take on my D16A6 SRP clones.

no issues. and they didnt have much of a dish at all, plus they had A6 valve spacing/reliefs... i was using a z6 head.

i think you should be able to shave a decent amount off!

your best bet would be to clay and measure so u can see exactly how much space u have to work with.
 

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I just started building an A6 block with Vitara pistons and FJ rods. (I got nervous about putting a stock rod through my block on my 11-1 engine :sweatdrop:) I was planning on using an a6 head cut .060 to .080 with a .030 head gasket. I have an exospeed stage 3 cam. I have to send two more cams to delta next week. One will be a 272-2 (2.4 bisi) and one will be a custom grind. The block goes to get bored and honed next week as well. If I get it mocked up and clayed before yours is done I'll post some info for you.
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
take it off the head not the block, the pistons right now should be .002 below the deck, you can take out around 0.030 which will get you to about 9.1:1
Yep, I wont touch the block as the pistons sits fine in there :)

well i ran my colt cam with somewhere around .500 lift give or take on my D16A6 SRP clones.

no issues. and they didnt have much of a dish at all, plus they had A6 valve spacing/reliefs... i was using a z6 head.

i think you should be able to shave a decent amount off!

your best bet would be to clay and measure so u can see exactly how much space u have to work with.
Wow, that sounds like a pretty crazy cam! The bis cam has less lift and considerably less duration. But I have no idea how the valve pockets fit :p Then again it shouldnt be too big of a job to make them fit... I'm tempted to just mill 0.060" and deal with it if it gets a problem...

I would have clayed it, but its a lot of hassle and money with sending it back and forth, etc... And I need to get my car through emission this year, so the plan was to do it on the stock head that sits in it now... So I'd need another head gasket too if I was to take it on and off...

I just started building an A6 block with Vitara pistons and FJ rods. (I got nervous about putting a stock rod through my block on my 11-1 engine :sweatdrop:) I was planning on using an a6 head cut .060 to .080 with a .030 head gasket. I have an exospeed stage 3 cam. I have to send two more cams to delta next week. One will be a 272-2 (2.4 bisi) and one will be a custom grind. The block goes to get bored and honed next week as well. If I get it mocked up and clayed before yours is done I'll post some info for you.
I'm definately interested in seeing how the claying works out! I think I've already milled my head when you are done, but still interested in the results :)
 

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I'm hoping to be able to mill about 6 thousands which will put me around 9.4:1, but I'm unsure if I have to take out material from the valve pockets..
Are you running the custom rods from FJT and the vitara?
You compression is about 8.5:1 right? Im wondering since in my case im using the vitaras on eagle rods (loosing 1 point of compression) how much can i shave the head in order to bump the compresion higher since right now in about 7.5:1, i don't mind shaving my head at the moment since this head came from the machine shop and if I shave it now to use it in my actual turbo engine I can still used this head with my all motor engine with the P29 or something similar. Just wondering if you steinar, or anybody has done this before.

take it off the head not the block, the pistons right now should be .002 below the deck, you can take out around 0.030 which will get you to about 9.1:1
So with the custom length rods the piston is still under the deck? I thought the vitaras would seat like the oem pistons. I will like to have close to 9:1 compression with the eagle rods and the 76mm vitaras which is what i have at the moment. Im putting together another engine, 75mm, but as it right now the 76mm engine is good to go.
PS- I also have a 272-2 delta cam
 

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So with the custom length rods the piston is still under the deck? I thought the vitaras would seat like the oem pistons.
They only sit like .002" below the deck with the custom rods which is all most flush. You can't complain about that.
 

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Boricuanology,

With the custom rods, the pistons are still like 0.003" in the hole.
If you have the deck resurfaced, depending on how much they take off, pistons can actually end up above deck.
IIRC, custom FJ rods are 138.63mm, stock rods are 137mm.

Neither you or mr. stone warrior mentions what head your using (I might have missed it though.
Something to keep in mind if your using the Y8 head, quench pads are flush with the HG surface, so you can possibly run into P2H issues.
And different heads have different combustion chamber volumes, which also affects compression ratio.
And I'm sure you both realize that milling the head reduces combustion chamber volume.
Past a certain point though, the reduction in CC volume isn't linear.
Milling the block, like in Boricuanology's case, will not only bring the pistons closer to the head, but increase compression at ~4.4cc per 1mm milled.
 

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Boricuanology,

With the custom rods, the pistons are still like 0.003" in the hole.
If you have the deck resurfaced, depending on how much they take off, pistons can actually end up above deck.
IIRC, custom FJ rods are 138.63mm, stock rods are 137mm.

Neither you or mr. stone warrior mentions what head your using (I might have missed it though.
Something to keep in mind if your using the Y8 head, quench pads are flush with the HG surface, so you can possibly run into P2H issues.
And different heads have different combustion chamber volumes, which also affects compression ratio.
And I'm sure you both realize that milling the head reduces combustion chamber volume.
Past a certain point though, the reduction in CC volume isn't linear.
Milling the block, like in Boricuanology's case, will not only bring the pistons closer to the head, but increase compression at ~4.4cc per 1mm milled.
Im running a d16z6 head
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Boricuanology,

With the custom rods, the pistons are still like 0.003" in the hole.
If you have the deck resurfaced, depending on how much they take off, pistons can actually end up above deck.
IIRC, custom FJ rods are 138.63mm, stock rods are 137mm.

Neither you or mr. stone warrior mentions what head your using (I might have missed it though.
Something to keep in mind if your using the Y8 head, quench pads are flush with the HG surface, so you can possibly run into P2H issues.
And different heads have different combustion chamber volumes, which also affects compression ratio.
And I'm sure you both realize that milling the head reduces combustion chamber volume.
Past a certain point though, the reduction in CC volume isn't linear.
Milling the block, like in Boricuanology's case, will not only bring the pistons closer to the head, but increase compression at ~4.4cc per 1mm milled.
lol @ mr. stone warrior :) Are you into scandinavian names or something?

I'm runnig a z6 head as well, so if I remember correctly I have about 0.080" before the reduction in chamber volume is not linear anymore, and the chamber start to look weird...

If noone can say for sure that I'll run into P2V clearance or timing belt lengt issues, I think I'll just go ahead and remove 0.060". 9.4:1 static compression is what its at this season then :)
 

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clearance wise you will prob be fine. but once you get past .040" milling the head i have heard you can run into timing belt issues so you might want to look into that a little more.

dont quote me on that but im pretty sure i remember having a conversation with someone about that kind of issue on some setups.
 

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Nice build...looks like I have seen it before....lol

I have a built y7, z6 head, delta 272-2(bisi 2.4 clone), and a t28 .....I was going to shoot for .03 off the head but I was just looking to get some compression back .... not go all out.....oh and ill be tossing some giggle gas at it aswell
 

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Nice build...looks like I have seen it before....lol

I have a built y7, z6 head, delta 272-2(bisi 2.4 clone), and a t28 .....I was going to shoot for .03 off the head but I was just looking to get some compression back .... not go all out.....oh and ill be tossing some giggle gas at it aswell
Im running a D16Z6 engine, in my case im running the eagle rods with the vitara piston. Now being that im loosing a whole point i just wanted to know how much can i shave of the head to bump the compression a bit, cut it enouth but not as much to cause any issues with the timming belt. Once my other engine gets finish i will use this head in a N/A aplication. So whats the safest amount i can cut, and how much of a compression i will have knowing that im using vitaras on eagle rods?

PS- Im not running a cam at the moment with my engine, but the new engine that i will put together will have the Delta cam 272-2 (Bisi clone) which I already have thanks to the guys at Delta cam.
 

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clearance wise you will prob be fine. but once you get past .040" milling the head i have heard you can run into timing belt issues so you might want to look into that a little more.

dont quote me on that but im pretty sure i remember having a conversation with someone about that kind of issue on some setups.
No, you will not have timing belt issues. I have .060 off a head and .020 off an A6 block right now. Stock belt and gear work fine. I use an adjustable gear just to fine tune my cam.
 

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lol @ mr. stone warrior :) Are you into scandinavian names or something?
Stolt Svensk. :greddy:
Steinar kinda sounds like "stones" in Swedish.
Norwegian Guy + Stone-Sounding Name = Google the name.

Back on topic, I believe a B16 water pump gear (22 teeth vs. 19 stock) can be used to take up slack in the timing belt. And it also helps to reduce high-rpm cavitation (by slowing down the water pump).
 

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i took off about .078" on my z6

as you can see the head was i little curved. so we stopped when we just started touching the valve seats. the valve never touched the clay when i checked clearances(stock cam vtec lock in place).

but thats with 37mm B18 rods. im runing high comp valves and have a comp of about 8.7:1 still very low but the car runs well.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Back on topic, I believe a B16 water pump gear (22 teeth vs. 19 stock) can be used to take up slack in the timing belt. And it also helps to reduce high-rpm cavitation (by slowing down the water pump).
Good info! I'll see if I can dig up an old b16 water pump on the local forums and see if the diameter on the axle is the same. I've actually been thinking about doing something to slow down the pump as I still have hints of overheating at the track. I spend almost all the time between 4000-7500rpm, so I guess the pump creates cavitation. If it works, it definately solves the any problems with the belt beeing too long also, so it sounds like something I want to try out!

i took off about .078" on my z6

as you can see the head was i little curved. so we stopped when we just started touching the valve seats. the valve never touched the clay when i checked clearances(stock cam vtec lock in place).

but thats with 37mm B18 rods. im runing high comp valves and have a comp of about 8.7:1 still very low but the car runs well.
Wow, that head sure looks curved. Looks like there are quite a bit of difference in chamber volume there...? Thanks a lot for the input!
 

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I hit up google a bit, and if the info I found is correct, the timing belts wont be an issue. "The VX timing belt has 103 teeth, where as the Z6 timing belt has 104 teeth". So if I run into timing belt problems; buy vx belt :)
I think the timing belt issues he is talking about would not be resolved with a shorter belt, rather an adjustable cam gear. when you shave the head about .040" you are about 1 degree off.
 
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