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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
alright, the time has come to buy a bigger turbo, and my topmount mani. I've been trying to decide what hp goal I should go for and what turbo i should use to get there...Right now I have an a6 with eagle rods and SRP pistons with a block guard, ARP head studs, ported y7 head and a full valvetrain and cam, as well as a skunk2 intake mani. The car needs to stay daily driveable...

With that being said, what hp goals are obtainable with this motor? I was thinking 450 would still be fairly safe...but no one has really told me what this motor is and is not capable of. On high boost it will not be a pump gas motor, obviously...but i want to be able to turn the boost down on the street and run 91 octane for daily driving.

The turbo that i'm looking at right now is a turbonetics 60-1 .63 a/r...which is supposedly capable of 550whp. I'm worried that it might be too big, and I wouldn't make power where I wanted to. I found a good deal on it, which is the main reason that i'm considering it. I've also thought about going with a t3/t04e, or a GT series ball bearing turbo. I'm just having trouble making up my mind...money is an issue since i'm still in college.

Anyhow, my question to you is, what hp should range should I go for, and do you guys have any suggestions on turbo size and selection. What bottom end are you running, and should i trust mine? Ball bearing would be ideal, but I don't really want to spend 2k bucks on just the turbo.

Thank you in advance
-Steve

edit: one other question...what size injectors and what fuel pump would you guys go with?
 

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What's your compression at with those SRP's on that A6 head? That .63 shouldn't be a probably at all. Probably full boost at 5k - 5.5k ?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
What's your compression at with those SRP's on that A6 head? That .63 shouldn't be a probably at all. Probably full boost at 5k - 5.5k ?
its an a6 block with 9.5:1 SRP's, and a y7 head that was milled a bit...should be right around 10:1 compression, maybe a bit more.
 

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its an a6 block with 9.5:1 SRP's, and a y7 head that was milled a bit...should be right around 10:1 compression, maybe a bit more.
10:1 is pretty high compression for 450whp on a turbo d . in everything that you have said, i didnt see anything about what you are tuning or will be tuning with. With 10:1 compression and enough boost to make 450whp, you better have a damned good dyno tune. I dont think a street tune will cut it, buts thats my opinion. its not impossible to do, you just need to be careful on how you do it. It will all be in the tune, it sound like you have the right idea as far as the turbo and components go.

good luck
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
10:1 is pretty high compression for 450whp on a turbo d . in everything that you have said, i didnt see anything about what you are tuning or will be tuning with. With 10:1 compression and enough boost to make 450whp, you better have a damned good dyno tune. I dont think a street tune will cut it, buts thats my opinion. its not impossible to do, you just need to be careful on how you do it. It will all be in the tune, it sound like you have the right idea as far as the turbo and components go.

good luck
well, i chip ecu's and tune, but i've never built a high hp single cam....I know that turbo would work well for that amount of hp on a gsr, but i wasn't sure about a d16 lol.

10:1 should be fine on race gas...shit, a stock GSR is higher compression than that :TU:
 

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i think your internals will be fine for your power goals, and a GT turbo will be able to make the power (i think a t3/60-1 will make 450whp as well...) but the sleeves are whats going to holding you back... i haven't heard very many rave reviews about the block gaurd; so you may want to looking into gettin the block sleeved for those kind of power goals... and i hope you are a good tuner; cuz your not going to have a lot of a margin of error...
 

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well, i chip ecu's and tune, but i've never built a high hp single cam....I know that turbo would work well for that amount of hp on a gsr, but i wasn't sure about a d16 lol.

10:1 should be fine on race gas...shit, a stock GSR is higher compression than that :TU:
yeah, like i said, you can do it with 10:1 compression, but it leaves you alot less error in your tune, especially with that much boost and power.

I guess its all up to you and how comfortable you feel with your tuning abilities.

http://turbod16.com/viewtopic.php?t=4140

Check out that link. it has setups and dyno graphs of alot of memebers there. It tells the turbo they are using and you can look at their dyno graph to see what rpm they spool at and how long/well they make power. I think quiet a few are using the gt series bb turbos. Just do your research and you should hit the numbers you are looking for.

good luck
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
i think your internals will be fine for your power goals, and a GT turbo will be able to make the power (i think a t3/60-1 will make 450whp as well...) but the sleeves are whats going to holding you back... i haven't heard very many rave reviews about the block gaurd; so you may want to looking into gettin the block sleeved for those kind of power goals... and i hope you are a good tuner; cuz your not going to have a lot of a margin of error...
well, i'd love to get the motor sleeved, but its already together and running, i'm just thinking about upgrading the manifold and turbo. If I sleeved a motor it would either be the LS or GSR thats sitting in the garage :lol: . The whole goal of this build is to prove to some local people that it can be done... :razz:
 

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well, i'd love to get the motor sleeved, but its already together and running, i'm just thinking about upgrading the manifold and turbo. If I sleeved a motor it would either be the LS or GSR thats sitting in the garage :lol: . The whole goal of this build is to prove to some local people that it can be done... :razz:
well; its a d-series... so just run it til it blows!!! lol
 

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well, i'd love to get the motor sleeved, but its already together and running, i'm just thinking about upgrading the manifold and turbo. If I sleeved a motor it would either be the LS or GSR thats sitting in the garage :lol: . The whole goal of this build is to prove to some local people that it can be done... :razz:

It can be done without aftermarket sleeves. I believe there is even a thread here about getting 450whp on a stock sleeved sohc d-series. what spoolinsol is saying is that if it was one thing holding you back from making that power, it would be your stock sleeves. Especially with 10:1 compression. Even with race gas, you will need to spend hours on the dyno getting every little thing nearly perfect.

But nonetheless, anything is possible, and if you can tune with excellence, then it most definately is possible.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
It can be done without aftermarket sleeves. I believe there is even a thread here about getting 450whp on a stock sleeved sohc d-series. what spoolinsol is saying is that if it was one thing holding you back from making that power, it would be your stock sleeves. Especially with 10:1 compression. Even with race gas, you will need to spend hours on the dyno getting every little thing nearly perfect.

But nonetheless, anything is possible, and if you can tune with excellence, then it most definately is possible.
well, if it blows up it'll be a learning experience and i'm sure i'll make a thread on here with the carnage :razz: i might just go for 400whp or a little less. anything above 350 would make for a very fun street car imo.
 

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well, if it blows up it'll be a learning experience and i'm sure i'll make a thread on here with the carnage :razz: i might just go for 400whp or a little less. anything above 350 would make for a very fun street car imo.


Thats just under what im shooting for on 93 octane pump gas. From what i have heard, 300+whp is just retarded on the streets. I think you will like it if you ever hook up. But i think you sould definately go for big power. :TU:
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
Thats just under what im shooting for on 93 octane pump gas. From what i have heard, 300+whp is just retarded on the streets. I think you will like it if you ever hook up. But i think you sould definately go for big power. :TU:
i guess i could do water injection and 91 octane on the street, and try to hit 350, then maybe c16 and more boost for the track. i've already bought a set of slicks, so traction shouldn't be too big of an issue :)

edit: i'm also buying a 4 stage boost controller :razz:
 

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i guess i could do water injection and 91 octane on the street, and try to hit 350, then maybe c16 and more boost for the track. i've already bought a set of slicks, so traction shouldn't be too big of an issue :)

edit: i'm also buying a 4 stage boost controller :razz:
yeah, im running a dual stage boost controller. i hope it helps with traction in the low gears. If you look on the turbo d16 link, there is a guy making 347whp @18 psi on pump gas. So anything is posible. You will definately get 350 with water injection.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
yeah, im running a dual stage boost controller. i hope it helps with traction in the low gears. If you look on the turbo d16 link, there is a guy making 347whp @18 psi on pump gas. So anything is posible. You will definately get 350 with water injection.
i'm still kind of wondering about that 60-1 though...i won't make power down low at all...
 

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i'm still kind of wondering about that 60-1 though...i won't make power down low at all...
port your head and run an open dp. it will help your numbers out alot and you will see gain in how fast your turbo spools.


If i were you, i would contact blaastperformance.com

I reccomend emailing him because he is in canada and it will be hella long distance rates. But i talked to him and he helped out with TONS of stuff. I was in the same boat as you. I wanted a turbo to make the power i wanted but that wouldnt take 3000 years to spool. He reccommended a garrett t3/t04e 46 trim. It maxes out at 380hp (it made 330whp on a bike). I talked to him some more and i decided to go with the garrett t3/t04e 54 trim with a stage 1 wheel. It is capable of 400hp and with the stage 1 wheel it will spool faster. I even had it upgraded to a .70 compressor housing (which was free)because he said it would make my life easier running the IC piping (the outlet is of the turbo is 2.5") and it wouldnt really change lag too much. I asked here on d-series if i would be able to spool it and everyone here said that i would with no problems at all and i would still have plenty of powerband to work with.

So, i have a Garrett t3/to4e 54 trim .70 compressor .63 exhaust with a stage 1 wheel. I paid $525 shipped for it. It is rebuilt but it is basically brand new. All new internals and seals and the casting was cleaned up very well and it looks amazing.

just keep your spectrum broad. there are turbos that will make your power and wont lag as bad.

good luck
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
port your head and run an open dp. it will help your numbers out alot and you will see gain in how fast your turbo spools.


If i were you, i would contact blaastperformance.com

I reccomend emailing him because he is in canada and it will be hella long distance rates. But i talked to him and he helped out with TONS of stuff. I was in the same boat as you. I wanted a turbo to make the power i wanted but that wouldnt take 3000 years to spool. He reccommended a garrett t3/t04e 46 trim. It maxes out at 380hp (it made 330whp on a bike). I talked to him some more and i decided to go with the garrett t3/t04e 54 trim with a stage 1 wheel. It is capable of 400hp and with the stage 1 wheel it will spool faster. I even had it upgraded to a .70 compressor housing (which was free)because he said it would make my life easier running the IC piping (the outlet is of the turbo is 2.5") and it wouldnt really change lag too much. I asked here on d-series if i would be able to spool it and everyone here said that i would with no problems at all and i would still have plenty of powerband to work with.

So, i have a Garrett t3/to4e 54 trim .70 compressor .63 exhaust with a stage 1 wheel. I paid $525 shipped for it. It is rebuilt but it is basically brand new. All new internals and seals and the casting was cleaned up very well and it looks amazing.

just keep your spectrum broad. there are turbos that will make your power and wont lag as bad.

good luck
well, my head is already ported and has a cam...so maybe it won't be too bad. blah.

i'm planning on building a PMTR and would like to be able to re-use as much as possible...I forgot to mention that. The single cam is a short term thing until i can afford to sleeve the gsr and buy crower rods and CP pistons....i'll even be able to re-use the topmount because it is going to be a custom made mani that they'll modify for me after i'm done with the single cam.

i'll contact blastperformance and see what he says. thank you for all of your help.
 

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With a block guard and forged internals, 450 whp is easily attainable. Stock Honda D series sleeves are 240,000-psi tensile strength ductile iron, and with a closed deck they become very rigid. Just like a B series, so 450 is a walk in the park for the bottom end…

You should be fine with a 10:1 Compression Ratio. As we all know, stock for stock, D series motors inherently have a high cylinder pressure when compared to a B series motor. High cylinder pressure = high heat. You didn’t happen to get your pistons coated did you? Well, forged pistons have a much higher tolerance to heat than your stock pistons, and coating them will increase their tolerance even further. High Compression makes for a higher Volumetric Efficiency. VE is the name of this game. Anything you can do to increase your VE will give you an advantage so long as you don’t blow up your motor. If your tune is on point, you should have no problems. Water injection will also help.

I would go with a t04e 57 trim because it seems to have more potential than a t04e-60 when you are dealing with a low displacement motor and the turbo itself has the possibility to make more peak boost than a 60 trim before it reaches it’s stall speed on a d16.

T04e 57 trim


T04e 60 trim


The points on these flow charts were calculated at sea level, 8200 rpm, 60 degrees Fahrenheit, with a 100% VE. You have a ported head, cam, and high compression. Note: My d16y8 with a 68mm TB, ported y8 IM, crower stage 2 cam, stock pistons/rods, and a good turbo setup gave me a 91% VE. With your additional flow and high compression I would not doubt that you get at least 100% maybe a little more.

If you feel your VE is higher, or lower, just multiply the airflow (lb/min), by your VE % and add or subtract from your original airflow. This will move the point either left or right.
 

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With a block guard and forged internals, 450 whp is easily attainable. Stock Honda D series sleeves are 240,000-psi tensile strength ductile iron, and with a closed deck they become very rigid. Just like a B series, so 450 is a walk in the park for the bottom end…

You should be fine with a 10:1 Compression Ratio. As we all know, stock for stock, D series motors inherently have a high cylinder pressure when compared to a B series motor. High cylinder pressure = high heat. You didn’t happen to get your pistons coated did you? Well, forged pistons have a much higher tolerance to heat than your stock pistons, and coating them will increase their tolerance even further. High Compression makes for a higher Volumetric Efficiency. VE is the name of this game. Anything you can do to increase your VE will give you an advantage so long as you don’t blow up your motor. If your tune is on point, you should have no problems. Water injection will also help.

I would go with a t04e 57 trim because it seems to have more potential than a t04e-60 when you are dealing with a low displacement motor and the turbo itself has the possibility to make more peak boost than a 60 trim before it reaches it’s stall speed on a d16.

T04e 57 trim


T04e 60 trim


The points on these flow charts were calculated at sea level, 8200 rpm, 60 degrees Fahrenheit, with a 100% VE. You have a ported head, cam, and high compression. Note: My d16y8 with a 68mm TB, ported y8 IM, crower stage 2 cam, stock pistons/rods, and a good turbo setup gave me a 91% VE. With your additional flow and high compression I would not doubt that you get at least 100% maybe a little more.

If you feel your VE is higher, or lower, just multiply the airflow (lb/min), by your VE % and add or subtract from your original airflow. This will move the point either left or right.

i wouldnt run a block guard if i was stying to make that much power. Has there been a design released that has eliminated hot spots for good?
 

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Well, that is a matter or personal preference. I have seen different ways of closing the deck, but I have seen more than one 400-500 whp civic using a block guard with stock sleeves. A lot of people use block guards without any problems so long as they are installed correctly.
 
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