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Discussion Starter #1
OK, so I have a connection that can get me the following pricing for straight from honda oem d16y8 pistons and rings. Prices as follows: I assume that this is per piston and per ring set, so 160 bucks for 4 Original honda pistons and almost 90 bucks for oem rings. NOTE: All oversized!

13030-P2P-000 PISTON SET (OVER SIZE) (0.50) $38.17

13031-P07-004 RING SET, PISTON (OVER SIZE) (0.50) (RIKEN) $22.11

And here is my reasoning:
1. Reliability. Honda parts are tried and true in stock motors for well over 150,000miles up to 300,000 (at least, thats the most I've seen) My thought pattern is to build a higher performance motor that lasts at least 100,000 miles.

2. I want to be as close to 10:1 C/R so that it is still a fun n/a car (I have a fairly built head), but still safe to apply 1/2 bar of boost if/when I wanted to. Stock pistons with a 2 layer head gasket put me right at the C/R.

I know they aren't forged and there are better options...BUT, it is true that many folks boost on stock D motors...Given the above info, what do you guys think?

I can also get rods for 79 bucks a piece, but it is pretty much accepted that these are the 'weakest' link, correct? Maybe shotpeened? Or just go with some aftermarket stock length rods?

Thanks in advance fella's!
 

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Civic turbo Hx/Ex
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Are you going to boost it?

Most times if you do H/C + Boost it = destruction, espically on a non forged motor.

I currently have 10.2:1 C/R and runing about 12-16 lbs of boost from a GT28BB. It is dangerous but I have forged pistons and rods and a good tuning system.
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
I'm not sure that 10:1 constitutes HC. The only change that needs to be made to reach 10.13:1 is a 2 layer HG and the .5mm overbore...which isn't that much of a reach.

Stock d16y8 is fun in a 90 hatch. A 10:1 cr is comfortable, safe, fun, peppy c/r with the d16y8 in a 90 hatch. Coupled with 75.5 bore, zex cam, springs, retainers, and mild P&P, I hope to be at a reliable 150-160 hp (at crank).

If I go boost, I would only go 7-10 lbs with a turbo...possibly supercharger since I'm not looking for huge boost.

Bottom line, this is a fun, reliable, daily driver. I would really like to hear other comments on using Honda oem pistons at 10:1 cr. I would really like to hear from someone who has rebuilt with Honda OEM pistons.
 

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Civic turbo Hx/Ex
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I'm not sure that 10:1 constitutes HC. The only change that needs to be made to reach 10.13:1 is a 2 layer HG and the .5mm overbore...which isn't that much of a reach.

Stock d16y8 is fun in a 90 hatch. A 10:1 cr is comfortable, safe, fun, peppy c/r with the d16y8 in a 90 hatch. Coupled with 75.5 bore, zex cam, springs, retainers, and mild P&P, I hope to be at a reliable 150-160 hp (at crank).

If I go boost, I would only go 7-10 lbs with a turbo...possibly supercharger since I'm not looking for huge boost.

Bottom line, this is a fun, reliable, daily driver. I would really like to hear other comments on using Honda oem pistons at 10:1 cr. I would really like to hear from someone who has rebuilt with Honda OEM pistons.
No, it really doesn't constitute as HC... More so higher than stock c/r. But when you add 6 lbs on top of it than you are talking about a smaller window for error.

It's all about tuning. That will determine your margin of error. Most people when they turbo a motor will lower the stock C/R. A Y8 stock C/R, if I remember correctly is about 9.8:1.

I don't think it’s imposable, I just think it would be more sensible to use forged. Don't listen to me though, do what you think is suitable.

Good luck
 

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I think you need to decide if you want to be NA or if you want to be boosted! It sounds like you're doing a pretty extensive build. If you're staying NA, you're going to want more compression than 10:1. P29's may be pushing it in a Y8 as far as CR, but people do it. The cam will help. Shot peened, stock rods with ARP bolts are more than enough NA. There's actually very few light weight NA style forged rods available for the D-series. Everyone pretty much builds big beefy H-beams for boost.

Which brings up the other side of the coin. If you're going to boost, build a motor for boost. Vitaras can be had for something like $28 ea. Add in a set of rods ($300-$350) and be done with it. Add a turbo based on how much power you want and call it a day.

There's nothing wrong with doing a rebuild with stock Honda pistons and rods. Honda spent a lot of time engineering them! D-Series will even withstand 200HP+ of boost in stock form. My problem is, that for the other money you are spending, you're not getting the best return with those stock pistons.
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
Thanks for the advice thus far. If there is a build I could say that I am pulling from, its somewhere inbetween sql_civics and rexinre's build and the standard stock motor/turbo build. I like their motors because they are peppy and n/a but can withstand boost. I fully understand that the depth, price, and awesomeness of their builds far exceeds anything I want to accomplish, but many of the concepts are applicable...namely slightly higher than stock c/r with potential for boost.

I'm not anti-aftermarket piston, because I know people do it, but for whatever reason, honda tuners typically change set ups often. The only two reasons I can think of are: A. They are tired of it/want more power or B. They blow something up.

That said, there isn't alot of comprehensive reliability data out there.
I can't find much info on folks having 75,000-100,000 miles on higher performance than stock honda motor builds. Perhaps its an oxymoron(reliable and fast motor build) or I'm asking to much of my d16y8...
I guess I just want to know that those forged pistons are as reliable in the long run as Honda OEM.
 

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Friend of the D
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Thanks for the advice thus far. If there is a build I could say that I am pulling from, its somewhere inbetween sql_civics D18 and the standard stock motor/turbo build. I like sql_civics build because it is peppy n/a but could withstand boost. I fully understand that the depth, price, and awesomeness of his build far exceeds anything I want to accomplish, but many of his concepts are applicable...namely slightly higher than stock c/r with potential for boost.

But you should note, that both sql_civic and Rexinre are using forged internals. The concept of a high CR and some lower boost level is fine. Tuning becomes more important than ever, but that's OK. If you're going this route, you will need to upgrade your internal (rods and pistons) IMHO.

I'm not anti-aftermarket piston, because I know people do it, but for whatever reason, honda tuners typically change set ups often. The only two reasons I can think of are: A. They are tired of it/want more power or B. They blow something up.

Pushing the envelope and/or having poorly designed and executed builds blows up motors all the time. It's not because they used aftermarket pistons!

That said, there isn't alot of comprehensive reliability data out there.
I can't find much info on folks having 75,000-100,000 miles on higher performance than stock honda motor builds. Perhaps its an oxymoron(reliable and fast motor build) or I'm asking to much of my d16y8...
I guess I just want to know that those forged pistons are as reliable in the long run as Honda OEM.

If built right there should be no difference in reliability, except you have to remember we are doing things with these motors thay were never really designed to do. Most of the reliable Vitara setups still haven't been around long enough to know what 100K will bring. Forged pistons are stronger and more reliable in a performance application. They also cost more, etc. Don't forget that Honda's still out to make $$$ and that means certain compromises when it comes to cost vs. performance vs. reliability.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Yeah, I realized they used forged internals...should have referenced that. I guess I'm still trying to go against gravity...be fast, reliable...and cheap
 

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If you wanna stick with stock rods you can get them shot-peened and also cryogenically treated- which is a deep-freezing process that strengthens them further.

Also you have pistons picked out that are +0.50mm overbore. The reason why honda has three different sizes: stock mm, +0.25mm and +0.50mm is because when you do a rebuild, you need to make sure the pistons fit the cylinder which has been worn down by the repeated revving of the pistons wearing down the cylinders. If you jump straight to +0.50mm you dont have much left to work with on the stock sleeves. If you want to rebuild it again later with other pistons ofcourse you'll need to get the cylinders honned and you'll be outta luck on the stock sleeves- forcing you to go to aftermarket pistons, resleeve your block, or just toss your block to the curb because its toast and not cost effective to resleeve it. Its just something to keep in mind because you dont want to trash your block on accident.
 

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1997 Civic Hatch D18Y8 M62 S/C
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I don't think there's anything wrong with using Honda pistons for your build. I might have used them had they made a 78mm that would work with my design. I did look for other non-Honda 78mm pistons and they exist in the Mistubishi Gallant and Mazda Miata but the Gallant pistons have a huge dome and the Miata's compression height was incompatible. Still, having all the forged internals, iron sleeves, and a block guard gives me a lot of options in future but aren't all that necessary technically speaking with my current N/A setup.

I also think that 10:1 is not a big deal because stock Y8 is 9.8:1 as mentioned earlier but even a stcok Y7/Y8 mini-me is 9.96:1 and that runs fine even with P2P ECU. My D18 at 10.2:1 can run ok with the P2P but adding boost may be another story.

I think your plans of slight overbore with 10:1 C/R and light boost is very conservative and will be a satifying build.
 

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turn up tha boost !
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I think it won't be satisfying enough in the end. Then you might regret it that you didn't put forged rods and aftermarket pistons in the first time.


It is never enough. trust the addicted ;)




btw, I'm going for a fast, reliable, cheap; show and go; all around street, strip, and show built machine.

10yrs and 10g's later:
I've learnt to advise others, that when planning your build you should build it to have room for future potential, without having to rebuild again and spending more money than needed if you had done it right the first time
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Thanks fella's! From a noob's perspective, its like having Tony Robbin's giving words of wisdom in an elevator (Shallow Hal anyone?) when you guys with awesome builds post comments :3dbiggrin:

Now get your ego's back in check :)

I think NOSAJ said it well...whatever decision I make now will be the basis for all other decisions concerning this motor...hey, there's some food for thought when making life choices as well...ok, ok, this isn't a life coach seminar...lol

I have cash to spend/burn/flush, so this being my first build, I am slightly ansy with dropping a few g's on a 20 year old civic that ISN'T guaranteed to run for any length of time.

Decisions, decision...

Now I need to decide whether to drop $320 on stock rods (plus cost of shotpeen process) or find some good I beams...I know the general consensus is to stay away from stock rods, especially in a higher performance motor.
 
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