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My civic
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No information. Very uninformative.
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
No information. Very uninformative.
Not a big believer in that whole, a picture is worth a thousand words thing, eh? =)

so water injection to pass?
It is hard to know for sure, but I would assume that what I made there is the most ghetto functional water venturi injector on the planet.

I was a bit suprised how much of a difference it made, the first test was yesterday, the second test was today, same tank of gas, same testing station, same testing tech, nothing changed besides the ghetto water venturi.

The first test without the water venturi my high readings were:
NOx: 2,499PPM
Hydrocarbons: 216PPM
CO: 0.88PPM
02: 1.9PPM
CO2: 13.8PPM

The second with my water venturi the high readings were:
NOx: 574PPM (reduced by 77%)
Hydrocarbon: 157PPM (reduced by 27%)
CO: 0.60PPM (reduced by 32%)
02: 1.5PPM (reduced by 21%)
CO2: 14.1PPM (Increased by 2%)


I was not expecting a swing that large.
 

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Two men shy of a group
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do you have any more pictures? i cant really tell how you have that water line hooked up into the intake and still allowing air to pass through. the smog tech didnt say anything about the line going from the water into the intake?
 

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MuthaFuckaUppa
2009 Civic Si Sedan
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That is the most kick ass way to pass emissions.

I may have to steal that in a year.
 

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so just adding a funnel to create vacuum and water, how does that make the car run cleaner , dont tell me the funnel vaporizes the hydrogen in the water
 

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ej8
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Not a big believer in that whole, a picture is worth a thousand words thing, eh? =)



It is hard to know for sure, but I would assume that what I made there is the most ghetto functional water venturi injector on the planet.

I was a bit suprised how much of a difference it made, the first test was yesterday, the second test was today, same tank of gas, same testing station, same testing tech, nothing changed besides the ghetto water venturi.

The first test without the water venturi my high readings were:
NOx: 2,499PPM
Hydrocarbons: 216PPM
CO: 0.88PPM
02: 1.9PPM
CO2: 13.8PPM

The second with my water venturi the high readings were:
NOx: 574PPM (reduced by 77%)
Hydrocarbon: 157PPM (reduced by 27%)
CO: 0.60PPM (reduced by 32%)
02: 1.5PPM (reduced by 21%)
CO2: 14.1PPM (Increased by 2%)


I was not expecting a swing that large.
Could be outside weather also. But yea this works. Same reason monster trucks run so clean*they use alcohol , burns cleaner.

so just adding a funnel to create vacuum and water, how does that make the car run cleaner , dont tell me the funnel vaporizes the hydrogen in the water
It runs cleaner because of the fuel mixture is change because of the water.
Some cars use air injected into th exhaust to burn the left overs.
 

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MuthaFuckaUppa
2009 Civic Si Sedan
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Did you use water or methanol washer fluid?
 

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Discussion Starter #11
do you have any more pictures? i cant really tell how you have that water line hooked up into the intake and still allowing air to pass through. the smog tech didnt say anything about the line going from the water into the intake?
You want velocity REALLY high velocity, that means large intake obstruction. That funnel is taking up nearly all my intake room, so lots of air gets forced through the funnel.

If you want to see the venturi effect in action stick a straw in a glass of water and then take another straw and blow over the top of the first straw with it as hard as you can (the two straws should be at slightly less than a right angle for best effect), it may take a time or 2 but you will know you are close when you hear the distinctive sound and see water lift. Its also a fun way to suprise your fellow diners =)

To see it on your car, go get a cheap medium sized round kitchen funnel ($0.97 at the walmart here) and drill a small hole in the tip and put an airline in it so it is barely inside the hole and held snug by the hole (clear fishtank air line, also sold at walmart, works well to see the effect but it will melt fast on anything very hot) then put the other end of the airline in a bottle of water. Take off your intake but leave a silicone/rubber connector on the throttlebody and start the car. Put the funnel against the connector with the small end that has the water line going towards the engine, then rev the engine a bit. Be VERY careful doing this you can hydro lock your engine if you dump enough water in, which is why run a nozzle instead of a hose if you build one for real.

When it works you should have the funnel get sucked into the silicone/rubber connector tightly and the connector will try to collapse some, you will also see the water go up the tube towards your intake, and you should be able to see the water spray in if you look in the end of the funnel.

The smog tech didn't seem to notice the line, I could have used black vacuum line and tapped into the washer fluid bottle down low or just used a seperate bottle or something if I was dealing with a really fussy one.

so just adding a funnel to create vacuum and water, how does that make the car run cleaner , dont tell me the funnel vaporizes the hydrogen in the water
NOx is produced at high combustion temps, water cools the charge and absorbs some heat from the combustion process. Lower combustion temps = less NOx. There is some suggestion that water vapor might help fuel mixing, which could be why partially/un burned hydrocarbons are lower.

Did you use water or methanol washer fluid?
I just topped off my half empty washer fluid with water, the washer fluid I use is just a mild detergent, no alcohol that I know of.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Ive got my emissions test tomorrow, i failed it last week...
Never thought of this tough
It depends how you are failing emissions, I did this because my NOx was to high, which is caused by high combustion temps, water injection cooled it off and lowered the NOx readings.

I could have just enriched the mixture and it would have cooled the mixture down, but it would have most likely raised the HCs which were already slightly to high.
 

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91 ED7
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Well, actually i have an exhaust leakage. Iknow this wont fix it, but it might,be handy in the future on other cars.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Bottle of rubbing alcohol in the tank works well
Yea, if you run your car down to a gallon or 2 in the tank and add some rubbing alcohol it can do the same thing. I had a full tank of gas and was broke and wanted to do it the next day.
 

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I did a smiliar thing once, i just put the windshield washer hose into the intake and ran the car at full throttle and sprayed water into the intake.

The purpose was to clean out the combustion chambers from soot and deposits.
But i never noticed any difference afterwards.

I might add that it was a car that was ready to be scrapped, and we had some fun with it before it was sent off.
 

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I could have just enriched the mixture and it would have cooled the mixture down, but it would have most likely raised the HCs which were already slightly to high.
Yeah, I was going to ask about that. It seems like you're just running lean based on the O2%. The carbon balance also suggests that you're running slightly lean.

I know that you've already passed and probably don't care, but what condition is your cat in? How about the oxygen sensor? Are you running in closed loop?
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Yeah, I was going to ask about that. It seems like you're just running lean based on the O2%. The carbon balance also suggests that you're running slightly lean.

I know that you've already passed and probably don't care, but what condition is your cat in? How about the oxygen sensor? Are you running in closed loop?
Short Story: I don't know. I haven't had the time or the money to look at everything I should be checking on this car. It doesn't throw any codes (After I fixed the messed up TPS sensor when I got it), I haven't even glanced at the O2 sensor, and while I know it has a cat, for all I know if could be hollow. I have no clue.

Long Story: I bought this car as it was, I have TONS of receipts (about 10k worth, the guy 2 owners ago did NOTHING himself) where it had the b18c1 installed and was tuned at SpeedFactory in Washington state, I have the dyno sheet for it. I honestly don't even know what program they used to tune it with.

I know it had Blox B cams (WAY to much cam for stock compression pistons) as well as springs and retainers when it was tuned (which I THINK it still has), I don't know if it had larger injectors or an adjustable FPR when it was tuned, but it doesn't now.

The chip in the p28 ECU says speedfactory on it, so I assume it is the same one.

I do know that it currently has a 68 or 70mm OBX throttlebody, that I don't have any receipts for, so I would guess that got put on later, I also don't think I have a receipt for the aftermarket intake that is port matched to the HUGE throttlebody, so it was probably a later addition as well.

I slapped a ODB0 B18A1 58mm throttle body on it when I took apart the OBX throttlebody to clean it and change the throttle attachment point and I gained like 8mpg for the week I had it on, even though I didn't drive any differently other than having a bit more throttle control (It seemed like I went from ~28MPG to ~36MPG). So there is clearly SOMETHING funky going on.

As soon as finals are done I plan to take off the valve cover and check the cam as well as adjust the valve lash and toss on a cheasy ebay adjustable FPR I have (if the diaphragm is still intact) and play around with a bit more fuel pressure. I might try to track down a stock sized b18c1 throttlebody as well if I can find one cheap.
 

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I wouldn't mess with the fuel pressure unless you have a reason to. If the ECU runs in closed loop, it should have no problem correcting those partial-load conditions. Based on the carbon balance, your car is only running something like 3% lean, but of course that's just an estimate.

If you care about passing emissions in the future or at least being somewhat environmentally friendly, I'd first look into the ECU tuning and then check out the cat.

As you noticed, the gigantic throttle body isn't helping anything, and the mileage difference suggests that the ECU is either running in open loop or the transition to open loop is jacked up. At the very least, it's hurting drivability.
 
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