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Premium Member
The Wife and the Car
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2,053 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
We all know that with more radical cam's and higher lift we must change our springs.

Dan I would be very interested to know what springs you run with your colt cam.

We have the tools that can recommend what springs are needed to match our profile and valves.

Problem is to use this info we would need to make custom springs.
If you use any of the ready made springs on the market. Some of the better brands are too stiff for our needs.

What is the price you pay for using a spring that is too stiff if any ?
 

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()*#$(*$
93 Legend L Coupe.
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11,404 Posts
Increased frictional losses. GREATLY increasing the oil temperature. (I have read literature that suggests that the valve train accounts for up to 1/3 of the heat generated in an engine that is transfered almost directly to the oil.) Lower overall power.

What I want to see is some really trick custom beehive springs along with custom retainers. This would yield a super light spring and retainer package that can easily control valvetrain harmonics without using much seat pressure. If you want to go custom, that is something I would look into.

If you find springs that are good for the lift of your cams, but they are too stiff at normal installed heights, simply change the installed height by playing with different shims or spot facing the valve seats in the head. I don't think you usually have to change things around much to get the desires results. (But, I've never done that so, who knows, really.)
 

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Classic Man
Civic
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im using comp/zex springs in my setup. they are old. i got them used with a cam that was worn out. prob at least 50,000km on them.



perhaps you could try to test the tension on the Y8 intake spring. it is rumored to be the stiffest OEM spring. i used them on the exhaust and intake side with my comp cam 59300, and i didnt have any valve float problems. but i never tried to rev higher than 7600rpm. (naturally aspirated)
 

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Premium Member
The Wife and the Car
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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks guys. Looks like what we really need is analysis of the springs on sale in the market. I have Isky, Supertech, Bisis and OE.

Then we need to match them to various cam profiles.
Sadly the only way to do this. Is to have the cam in hand. Or at least the complete profile in 720 Points. Then figure out the spring requirements from the cam profile data.
I dont think playing with the installed height changes the spring rate in any way.
Do you know of any guys who would do custom bee hive springs ?
If we supplied the data.

I just wish the guys who made springs would supply all the technical data on the spring. That way we could chose the best spring to match the cams profile. But data is hard and scare to come by. Only way out is to buy one of each and extract the data.

We run some pretty aggressive profiles and do spin up the motor to 9000 RPM so doubt the stock Intake springs would work.

Thanks Beve. I knew about the Pumping losses. But hadn't considered heat.
My other worry was what effect do the springs have on Valve and seat life. ?

Thanks Dan. I will look into the springs you mentioned.
 

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97 honda coupe
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the rotational resistance of the springs are close to nil, since they not only push against the cam when it is lowering the valve, but it also helps push the cam away.

Heat generated is a different story though. One way to get around the heat generation is to run roller rockers.
 

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'97 crv
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Roller rockers would be great if the could be put in a Z6 head. Didn't they only come on a couple D's that aren't very common? And Isn't it not possibly to modify them to be put in to other heads??
 

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Classic Man
Civic
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word on the "street" is the Bisi, Isky and Comp springs are all the exact same, same factory, etc.

i would love to know if that is true RDC. that would be great information to provide to a community that helped you! (hint hint lol im attempting to guilt you into this. lol)
 

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1971 VW Super Beetle
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Roller rockers would be great if the could be put in a Z6 head. Didn't they only come on a couple D's that aren't very common? And Isn't it not possibly to modify them to be put in to other heads??
Mostly VTEC-E heads. I hear the y5 a VTEC-E head had roller rockers and the valvetrain might fit into other heads (y7, y8, z6) but don't quote me on that. The issue someone mentioned was the cams currently available for the other engines is not compatible with the roller rockers or something..
 

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()*#$(*$
93 Legend L Coupe.
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11,404 Posts
RDC-

I haven't looked into the effects of heavy springs on the seat, however, an uncontrolled valve is going to do more damage more quickly to the seat than anything. Even if the spring is heavy, if the cam profile has a good closing ramp, it shouldn't matter TOO much how heavy the spring is.
 

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90 CRX Si
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In for the info in this thread. I hate to break into this, but what ill effects, if any, would one run into using a stiff aftermarket springs like a Crower or Comp with stock camshaft?
 

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2005 Legacy GT
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If stiff springs add so much heat and drag why run them? If aftermarket springs are to stiff then it sounds like danz has it right with y8 springs.
Because if you run springs that are too soft with a radical cam (i.e. one that has a lot of lift) the spring can't close the valve fast enough. If the valve isn't closed by the time the piston reaches the top of it's cycle then it's like dad meeting his daughters asshole boyfriend and carnage ensues (wait ... are D's interference engines ... I can't remember). Also it allows a lot of compression to bleed off resulting in a loss of power. There are probably a whole host of other issues that can result from a valve being open when it shouldn't be, but I'm still kind of a n00b when it comes to the internal engine dynamics so someone else is going to have to take it from here (and possibly correct some erroneous claims I may have made).
 

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97 honda coupe
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No, the y5 and z1 roller rocker cams do NOT fit, i have one sitting in my garage and i can verify that. however...

The only rocker that is a roller rocker from the y5 valvetrain that will transplant 100% is the curved intake side rocker arm. the exhaust rockers will not fit since they are simply too wide and actually scrape the other lobes. Now, you could machine down the cam lobes so that the exhaust rockers didnt hit, but then you would be not only destroying a cam but also weakening the cam. So im not 100% on this working in the first place.
 

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same
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Someone just needs to come up with a roller rocker assembly for the d series.
 

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dan i believe you are speaking of supertech springs. i am pretty certain they released info stating that they manufacture springs for atleast a few of the companies you mentioned, however they are made to order, so they are all different just made in the same place....

years ago rocket motorsports (now doing other things) did a TON of valve spring data and plastered it online for all to see, was all DOHC stuff, but we need someone like that to do something similar with the SOHC springs available.
 

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90 CRX Si
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No, the y5 and z1 roller rocker cams do NOT fit, i have one sitting in my garage and i can verify that. however...

The only rocker that is a roller rocker from the y5 valvetrain that will transplant 100% is the curved intake side rocker arm. the exhaust rockers will not fit since they are simply too wide and actually scrape the other lobes. Now, you could machine down the cam lobes so that the exhaust rockers didnt hit, but then you would be not only destroying a cam but also weakening the cam. So im not 100% on this working in the first place.
There are thin and wide lobe Z6 cams, I think I still have one of each. Would a tin lobe one clear?
 
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