Honda D Series Forum banner

1 - 19 of 19 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,921 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I finally have my fuel system fully set for the E85 switch over next year. My current setup dynoed at 328whp 253ft/tq on my Go-autoworks 50 trim setup using BP 93 premium. I love the power and everything feels solid. Now, for those folks who changed over fuels, besides the quicker spool, better smelling fuel, better timing advantages... how much was your power increased overall? I hear numbers all over the place at work(due to 4, 6 and 8 cyl applications). So for those who simply changed over, how do like it and how good were the gains on your boosted setup? Any comments are appreciated! :willy_nilly:
 

·
Registered
See above...
Joined
·
13,322 Posts
Well, I had nothing to compare my numbers too because I only got an e85 tune; however, both my tuner and I saw that comparable setups on 93 oct had much less on the torque curve. I netted 400whp with 323 ft lbs, which similar 93 oct setups were only around the high 200s.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,921 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Well, I had nothing to compare my numbers too because I only got an e85 tune; however, both my tuner and I saw that comparable setups on 93 oct had much less on the torque curve. I netted 400whp with 323 ft lbs, which similar 93 oct setups were only around the high 200s.
damn... that's some nice numbers.... what turbo and boost level?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
400/323 is really high for the torque.

I know you can get more aggressive with the timing on E85. As long as your motor can handle the additional torque, you'll see some gains. Really depends on the tuner, since that is the only thing that is changing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,921 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
400/323 is really high for the torque.

I know you can get more aggressive with the timing on E85. As long as your motor can handle the additional torque, you'll see some gains. Really depends on the tuner, since that is the only thing that is changing.
it does seem high, but then again I have seen some solid torque come from hondas :p I dont think i am going to increase the boost on my setup. I just want a safer tune with the E85 along with the additional benefits...
 

·
Registered
94 Integra
Joined
·
1,225 Posts
I had some talks with Tony Palo a while back. He said turbo cars see an average of 8% peak HP gains over 93 octane, but even more torque. Midrange is usually improved from all the timing you can add, anywhere from 5-10 degrees extra. Keep in mind nearly all the gains are from cooling the charge air, NOT octane. It's actually much closer to 95 octane - but that cooling effect makes it as useful as 100+ octane.

Another thing to consider is how you maintain your fuel system. Some unlucky people get their gas from "sloppy" stations. The "black goo" you may have heard of has been narrowed down to too much of the wrong additive. If this happens, you have to run a tank of E50 or lower (half E85, half E10) which will naturally absorb & clean this stuff. Note that E50 has nearly the same cooling ability as E85, so your E85 tune will still be safe (unless your tuner put you on the ragged edge of timing). A lot of Evo guys report their E85 tune being knock-free even with 50-60% ethanol content, partly because the AFR's drop & aid cooling.

Ethanol also degrades if left in an "open" container. Open is anything besides a sealed metal container. Plastic or a vented metal system (like a car's tank) allows moisture in. Not only does the fuel pull apart, but the evaporated fuel can mix with moisture & cause corrosion on any metal above the fuel level.


With all that scary stuff put out there, I still recommend it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
I know you have to spray more E85 than gas so if you are maxing injectors currently you will have to go bigger.
Don't forget the fuel pump and possibly the lines themselves. I forgot the flow rate of the lines. I don't think the OP will run into that issue though. You have to pump something like 30% more E85 than gasoline, right?

http://fuelinjectorclinic.com/flow-calculator

That's a decent calculator just to compare pump gas to E85 in terms of injector required.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,921 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Don't forget the fuel pump and possibly the lines themselves. I forgot the flow rate of the lines. I don't think the OP will run into that issue though. You have to pump something like 30% more E85 than gasoline, right?

Flow Calculator

That's a decent calculator just to compare pump gas to E85 in terms of injector required.
got a fresh walbro 255 and 1000cc injectors.... ill be good :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,921 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
I had some talks with Tony Palo a while back. He said turbo cars see an average of 8% peak HP gains over 93 octane, but even more torque. Midrange is usually improved from all the timing you can add, anywhere from 5-10 degrees extra. Keep in mind nearly all the gains are from cooling the charge air, NOT octane. It's actually much closer to 95 octane - but that cooling effect makes it as useful as 100+ octane.

Another thing to consider is how you maintain your fuel system. Some unlucky people get their gas from "sloppy" stations. The "black goo" you may have heard of has been narrowed down to too much of the wrong additive. If this happens, you have to run a tank of E50 or lower (half E85, half E10) which will naturally absorb & clean this stuff. Note that E50 has nearly the same cooling ability as E85, so your E85 tune will still be safe (unless your tuner put you on the ragged edge of timing). A lot of Evo guys report their E85 tune being knock-free even with 50-60% ethanol content, partly because the AFR's drop & aid cooling.

Ethanol also degrades if left in an "open" container. Open is anything besides a sealed metal container. Plastic or a vented metal system (like a car's tank) allows moisture in. Not only does the fuel pull apart, but the evaporated fuel can mix with moisture & cause corrosion on any metal above the fuel level.


With all that scary stuff put out there, I still recommend it.
thanks for your feedback man... I am going to run e-85 from the Holiday next to DB here in MN... we have had great results with it. I don't plan on running anything else but that just to be safe.
 

·
Registered
94 Integra
Joined
·
1,225 Posts
Don't forget the fuel pump and possibly the lines themselves. I forgot the flow rate of the lines. I don't think the OP will run into that issue though. You have to pump something like 30% more E85 than gasoline, right?

Flow Calculator

That's a decent calculator just to compare pump gas to E85 in terms of injector required.
The OEM lines are more than enough for a 255 (~550whp), many people have even taken them farther with a bigger pump. Keep in mind even the Wally 450 has less than 1/4" ID for the outlet.

As far as that calc...it's okay for a horribly inefficient motor/turbo. For serious motors, you can size your injectors with it set to @crank for WHP numbers.
 

·
Registered
See above...
Joined
·
13,322 Posts
damn... that's some nice numbers.... what turbo and boost level?
Bullseye 57 trim .60/.63 at 23 psi. Here's my build details :

http://www.d-series.org/forums/showcase/131050-boost-i-trust-blk92_d16s-turbo-build-begins.html

'92 VX gutted hatch
Hydro Si trans (stock gears) and a Quaife LSD (4.25 FD)
20 over stock sleeves and stock head ports
20 over SRPs
JE rings
Eagle rods
King bearings
OEM Z6 metal tri-layer HG
ARP head studs
Comp Cams 59300
Comp Cams springs
S2 retainers
Supertech valves (not OS)
OEM keepers
Aerospeed cam gear
Blox oil sandwich
Mr Gasket Pro Series fuel rail
Walbro HP 255
AEM FPR
Precision 1000cc injectors (will need a resistor box)
Edelbrock IM (bored out to 68mm)
Professional Products 68mm TB
Map sensor adapter plate
GM 3 bar map sensor
All new OEM/eBay/ Felpro seals/gaskets
Thermal TB and IM gasket
Mr Gasket Pro fuel rail
SS fuel filter to fuel rail line
Blox oil block adapter
Blox oil/tranny magnetic plugs
Spoolin Performance full ram
Bullseye 57 trim .60/.63
Tial Sport 38mm WG
Full-Race 3" DP
Go-Autoworks oil feed and oil drain kit
Copper turbo gaskets (head-to-mani, mani-to-turbo, turbo-to-DP)
VRS 3" mandrel-bent alumnized steel exhaust kit
Vibrant flat black 3" straight-through muffler
Spoolin Performance 2.5" mandrel-bent steel I/C piping w/ Greddy style flange
Greddy Type S BOV
Spoolin 350 I/C
2-port 3/8th NPT fitting catch can
Autometer Phantom I series gauges
Competition STG V clutch kit
DIY poly filled motor mounts and torque mounts
Buddy Club Pro Spec Dampers
15" TSW TrakStar 4s w/ Neo Gens
14" Diamond Racing steelies w/ BFG drag radials

GOAL : 380-400whp on E85
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,921 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Bullseye 57 trim .60/.63 at 23 psi. Here's my build details :

http://www.d-series.org/forums/showcase/131050-boost-i-trust-blk92_d16s-turbo-build-begins.html

'92 VX gutted hatch
Hydro Si trans (stock gears) and a Quaife LSD (4.25 FD)
20 over stock sleeves and stock head ports
20 over SRPs
JE rings
Eagle rods
King bearings
OEM Z6 metal tri-layer HG
ARP head studs
Comp Cams 59300
Comp Cams springs
S2 retainers
Supertech valves (not OS)
OEM keepers
Aerospeed cam gear
Blox oil sandwich
Mr Gasket Pro Series fuel rail
Walbro HP 255
AEM FPR
Precision 1000cc injectors (will need a resistor box)
Edelbrock IM (bored out to 68mm)
Professional Products 68mm TB
Map sensor adapter plate
GM 3 bar map sensor
All new OEM/eBay/ Felpro seals/gaskets
Thermal TB and IM gasket
Mr Gasket Pro fuel rail
SS fuel filter to fuel rail line
Blox oil block adapter
Blox oil/tranny magnetic plugs
Spoolin Performance full ram
Bullseye 57 trim .60/.63
Tial Sport 38mm WG
Full-Race 3" DP
Go-Autoworks oil feed and oil drain kit
Copper turbo gaskets (head-to-mani, mani-to-turbo, turbo-to-DP)
VRS 3" mandrel-bent alumnized steel exhaust kit
Vibrant flat black 3" straight-through muffler
Spoolin Performance 2.5" mandrel-bent steel I/C piping w/ Greddy style flange
Greddy Type S BOV
Spoolin 350 I/C
2-port 3/8th NPT fitting catch can
Autometer Phantom I series gauges
Competition STG V clutch kit
DIY poly filled motor mounts and torque mounts
Buddy Club Pro Spec Dampers
15" TSW TrakStar 4s w/ Neo Gens
14" Diamond Racing steelies w/ BFG drag radials

GOAL : 380-400whp on E85
You should get to your goal with no problems.... at least I don't see any..... nice build....
 

·
Registered
civic
Joined
·
2 Posts
new to here . i have a base d17a1 with 45k / with rebuild 5 speed W/ XTR stage 1 clutch . lookin for any suggestions from a peeps who know D's.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,921 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
What I have noticed other than power increase is way better part throttle accel and way better starting.
Also noticed my manifold and exhaust internally is rusting out. Seems like whenever i start it water pours out.
Better starting? I am assuming this is under warmer temperatures correct? I know whenever I try and start an E-85 car here at the shop under 40 degrees, they like to fight.... When you say manifold, you talking about your exhaust mani? How can you tell its rusting internally?
 
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
Top