Honda D Series Forum banner
1 - 11 of 11 Posts

· Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Smoked my 4th d series turbo build & in the midst of building greatness my wife burnt the car to the ground. Too heart broken too sift through the ashes of my hard labor, undying love, and burnt dreams, the investigation leading to what may be separation is ongoing. With that being said I have an array of parts mid build laying around. One of said parts is a d series manifold ported with aluminium -an fittings welded in for turbo application. I have a d17 injector plate in ill prepped and ready to weld on to the manifold as to run 2 sets of injectors, my plan was to run 750's in the back and 440's up front from 2 rails being controlled with my AEM 2. 440S down in the low range/idle and for those times that the gettin must be good/ building boost to throw some roost, ie sendin it, 750s cracked in back and if you're not scared to go full send let both sets do work and let that turbo sing to your hearts desire. My question is ideas, thoughts, jealous? Would you buy one if you saw one for sale, would you tell your buddy actually building his car not just talking about it that he should buy one? Have you actually seen this done before?2
 

· Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Your post reads so... melodic. Sort of as if made by the "RegularCarReviews" guy.

To answer your question, I wouldn't, because I'm not smart enough to figure out how it would help my intended goal.
It would help
Its been done, though I've typically seen it done with nitrous applications.
Are you saying they use a second set for there shot or a second set for fuel while they spray?
 

· Registered
93 Civic HB SI, 95 Civic HB CX
Joined
·
2,828 Posts
What you're thinking of already exists in many different forms.

Is your goal here simply for additional fuel for a turbo application? What is your power goal? And this is for a D series correct?

If so, having two sets of injectors and fuel rails for low/OOB and high/IB operation is a lot of unnecessary complexity for an engine already controlled by a standalone ECU, on a platform/architecture that cant take much power as it is.

Just get some 1200cc saturated injectors on a single rail and call it a day. Modern high volume saturated injectors have come a LONG way, and will have almost no discernable idle quality issues. Running 1000's over here, and no issues.


What you are talking about wanting to do is typical for large shot wet nitrous setups, and is very common for piggyback style boost applications.

-Advanced nitrous systems change the entire intake manifold and have two (or more) fuel rails and injector sets, one for normal operation, and others that engage when the button is pressed to supply the needed fuel volume.

-Piggyback turbo/supercharger systems also did this, like the D series Edelbrock turbo kit.
  • The Edelbrock kit worked with the stock ECU, adding a piggyback ECU which managed things when the intake manifold was seeing boost/positive pressures.
  • The intake manifold they built for this kit had provisions for 8 fuel injectors, and 2 fuel rails. The stock injectors mounted up top in the normal spot, while a second rail and injector set was mounted below the plenum. You can barely make out the second rail in this picture on my green car:
Hood Motor vehicle Automotive tire Vehicle Automotive lighting

  • I don't use the second rail, because the car already has 600cc saturated injectors on the primary rail, plus Demon2 and Neptune RTP engine management.
  • The piggyback stuff simply got pulled off, but the injectors and rail were left there to plug the holes in the manifold!
  • Here's a google search result for the Edelbrock kit manifold, showing the fuel system line loop for the second rail:
Gas Electrical wiring Auto part Machine Wire




The only other necessary applications where two (or more) fuel rails/injectors are used/needed are:

1) an OEM application using a stock GDI injection system, with a second or 3rd set of injectors and rails to support power adders like turbos, superchargers, nitrous, or all 3 at the same time lol.
  • Examples of GDI with aftermarket piggyback port injection added on for larger power goals, are solutions created for C7/C8 vette or newer Camaros with LT4 V8's, newer MK7 and up VW GTI's, R's, etc. Audi A4, A6, etc. or Porsche Cayman, etc.
    • A video of such a system:
    • Skip to near the end of the video to learn more about the setup.

Or 2) you have an application where you require so much BSFC due to your power target, that a single set of injectors and rail do not exist to support the desired power level.
  • This is incredibly common in drag racing engines, especially where 4 bangers and I6's are trying for 1600+ whp, on E85, methanol or nitromethane, all requiring an insane amount of fuel to inject.
  • For example, BoostedBoiz uses a ProJay manifold for their K swapped MR2, this manifold has 2 separate sets of injectors and rails. The Fueltech system manages everything.

In other words, on a D series, drop in technology exists today that far exceeds what "normal" needs are for a typical boosted/nitrous D build.

Grab some 2150cc saturated injectors from Fuel Injector Clinic:


,drop em in, install a Walbro 525 fuel pump, larger fuel lines, a 1:1 rising rate regulator with base pressure set to 60psi, and you have enough fuel to support 1000whp on E85:

Font Rectangle Parallel Screenshot Number



Short of concreting the block, going copper head gasket with cylinder rings and head receiver grooves, massive head studs (i.e. very serious drag racing), the average D build cannot survive this power level, therefore a need for more fuel beyond this drop in ready technology is unnecessary for our world.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
10,091 Posts
I would just buy the OBX junk intake manifold, fix the crappy ports and welds, and use the big plenum as a location for a second fuel rail, if ytou really think you need 2 sets of injectors.


BUT if you spend 400-600 bucks on good injectors, you get your money's worth. A set of modern 1600cc injectors have really good idle quality if fuel pressure is set properly.
 

· Registered
Sloppy Jalopy
Joined
·
4,630 Posts
we used to do this all the time when we were poorer using scrounged up used factory injectors,,doing work in the imaginary garage on our shitty turbo J-bodies ..
it does make for better drivability than a 900cc inj when putting around.
would I cum if you made one maybe but I wouldn't buy it..

sunbird
3.8 v6 iron block forged 8:1, compcams buick t-type cam
2 fuel pumps dual fuel rail 12- 440cc injectors crushed fpr.
megasquirt
holset 20-25 psi
meth
fully manual auto trans
consistent mid 12's car on street tires bfg t/a radial.

wow do I miss that junker and the times back when used parts were really cheap.
 

· Registered
Sloppy Jalopy
Joined
·
4,630 Posts
even or odd?
even ---engines where out of the 86-87 fwd deltacutlassskylark , iron block and heads roller cam, the one with the c31 ignition.
 

· Registered
93 4d lx, z6,ported, port matched, compression bumped, balanced, manual swap
Joined
·
1,629 Posts
Those were the ones with the heads that electrolysis welded the heads to the block when ground straps broke and people failed to change the coolant, werent they?
 

· Registered
Sloppy Jalopy
Joined
·
4,630 Posts
Those were the ones with the heads that electrolysis welded the heads to the block when ground straps broke and people failed to change the coolant, werent they?
could be didn't come across any that were 1 piece tho..
 
1 - 11 of 11 Posts
Top