[devere]

Ok, so as some will know, my car is off being tuned with Hondata. There is a problem though.

When trying to set the map for idle, the car is running at 3k rpm, and is taking on fuel the equivalent of running at 7k. So basically running as rich as fuck!

Initially, cam timing was thought to be out, but this is very unlikely.

The engine is running a big cam, the Bisi level 3. So with that there isnt a lot of vacuum at low RPM's, is that going to cause any issues?

I had the car originally running on a basemap, and it was tough to start, and wouldnt idle. But i was able to hold the revs at 1k rpm, and it would be ok. Just as soon as i let off it would stall. The only thing i have done is changed the injectors to some RC 310 cc, as it was originally running on the Y7 190's!!!

Anyone have any ideas on what could cause this problem....?

 

[kyle h.]

by looking at where the car is running at in the map, you should be able to find your problem. One possibility is, that the injectors have been rescaled wrong.

 

[devere]

im no where near the car you see, its 2 1/2 hours away. Basically, he said it will run by giving it throttle, to keep the revs up, but when its at 3k its putting fuel in as if its at 7k...

considering ive had it running on the basemap with 190's, i cant see that all of a sudden its going to start playing up cus of somehtig ive done. Unless the air down south is a bit thin...:noway:

But in all seriousness, if the cam timing was off, i would never have had it running like it was before would i? And he said its right the way over the right hand side of the map, instead of top left....

 

[kyle h.]

cam timing may be off. can't the tuner check for that?

maybe there is a vac leak around the injector seals.

 

[devere]

He thought cam timing might be off, but i double checked that when i put it together, i dont think it is off. Is there a way of testing for a vac leak round the injectors? I was dubious about the way the RC injectors fit on the seals when i put them in...

 

[SOHC_STUDENT]

If your basemap is for 190 injectors and then you put 330's in there, its gonna run real rich.

The ecu tells the injector to open for a certain number of milliseconds.

A 330, open for 5 milliseconds will spray more fuel than a 190 open for 5 milliseconds.

 

[devere]

He knows its got the 310's in there, he said he was doing the fuel trim for the 310's. I honestly think its something in the tune. I cant see what else can cause a problem. I had it running, and could hold the throttle at 1k. Now hes started tuning its running super rich...? Surely he controls that with the way its tuned.....???

 

[kyle h.]

does he know what he's doing?

 

[devere]

lol, it made me wonder! They are an authorised hondata dealer, one of about 3 in england here. And he does have the Uk's fastest honda, so i assumed it was a pretty good reputation to go by. I just dont think they see many all motor D's. In fact, i dont think they have seen an all motor D before. And had about 1 turbo D in.

What i think it is, is either 2 things, the MAP sensor, or the actual tune, because surely he will know the vacuum reading, and also determine how much fuel to go in and when...? and change it accordingly depending on what reading s he gets from the exhaust...?

This is going to be the end of me this build. I've had enough...

 

[kyle h.]

tuning a d series vs a b series is no different.

from what you've told us, the guy sounds like he doesn't want to tune your car, did he tell you to come pick it up?

you should be able to hear a vac leak around the injectors, or spray some carb cleaner around the seals and see if the engine bogs at all.

 

[SOHC_STUDENT]

tell us more about the block, head, intake and ecu

That bisi 3 cam needs high comp/race ported head/modified intake

 

[Arachnid]

does he have the fastest all-motor or turboed honda?
-plus, you have hondata i'm sure it can subtract fuel and add/subtract timing where you need it
-sounds like this guy really doesn't wanna tune your shit. get someone new
-but then again, the bisi 3, i hear, isn't so great with fuel injection systems.

 

[SOHC_STUDENT]

does he have the fastest all-motor or turboed honda?
-plus, you have hondata i'm sure it can subtract fuel and add/subtract timing where you need it
-sounds like this guy really doesn't wanna tune your shit. get someone new
-but then again, the bisi 3, i hear, isn't so great with fuel injection systems.

it's fine with fuel injection, just need a reprogramable ecu to increase fuel where needed. This isn't a cam you can run on a stock computer or stock head, you will decrease performance.

 

[Arachnid]

another thought, do you have high compression pistons close to or over 11:1.

 

[miro_gt]

1. post your setup
2. upload your calibration somewhere, and post the link to it
3. PM me and I'll take a look

your car is idling so high due to couple possible reasons, of which you already said it's putting too much fuel, so check simple things like the impedanz of the injectors, the fuel pressure in the fuel rail, and the size of the injectors - and make sure the hondata sees the same size

 

[devere]

This is the setup:

D16Y7
Ported head etc.
Endyn Rollerwave pistons 75.5mm bore - 12.54:1 C/R
TT Rods
ACL heavy duty bearings
Edelbrock Performer X intake manifold
KMS Valve springs and titanium retainers
DC 4-2-1 manifold (may be the weak link here)
Tanabe SMR cat back system with cat bypass.
Bisimoto Level 3 Cam Lift and duration = 0.472/0.449 (268/252)
Chipped P06 ECU/Hondata
60mm TB
RC 310cc injectors
ARP headstuds

He does want to tune it. Its just its not playing ball! THe problems have only occurred since i changed the injectors from the stock 190's i used to get it running, to the RC 310's.

I did that, then it wouldnt start with the basemap chip i was running it on. That, and re wiring the IACV and fitting the air intake is all that has changed since it was run. I know the IACV is wired properly.

I was able to hold it at 1k RPM with the 190's on the basemap i had. It was just difficult to start, and would backfire through the intake sometimes before it would run. I couldnt get it to idle, but it would keep going with giving it some throttle. I have driven it and everything, just since i changed the injectors, then took it to be tuned its been a proper pain in the arse.

Below is a copy of the basemap whihc i have had it running on before i changed the injectors over. Bare in mind, with this map, i was actually using the 190cc injectors. And the map was done beofre i had even contemplate the Bisi level 3, i thought i would be running a delta 272 or 282. I dont really know the ins and outs of the map, but it was good enough to run the car, although it was a cunt to start. and wouldnt idle. Done with Crome, by the way.

 

[devere]

Just added the original .bin to the above post. i had it running on this to start with.

 

[miro_gt]

what management system do you use ? .. cause the SManager for Hondata doesn't open that.

I did open it with Crome, but need to make sure what system you're using ..

 

[devere]

what management system do you use ? .. cause the SManager for Hondata doesn't open that.

I did open it with Crome, but need to make sure what system you're using ..

That is the original map i HAD the car running on before i changed the injectors. That was running purely a chipped P06 ECU and that map was done on Crome. I dont have the map for the Hondata that is now being tried on it. The guy is nearly 150 miles away, and i doubt i can get him to email it to me.

The thing is. If i have had it running on the above map, and now its playing up, surely it must point to whatever has changed... the injectors...?

I dont know how they can be bad, but soemhting must have happened there?!

 

[SOHC_STUDENT]

Try grabbing some 240cc injectors out of an EX civic. They're cheap and abundant.

240cc will support 150HP at 80% duty cycle which is enough for this build and it would rule out the new injectors as being the problem.

Did Bisi mention that you really need carbs or ITBs to run the level 3 cam?