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I've always heard the term honing and never even heard the term deglaze until now. I'm confussed on what's the atually difference.
I see it as the deglazing as more of a, just cleaning up the cylinders a little if your not going to have it bored. and honing as a full on it was bored, maybe under the spec on purpose and then honed to get it to spec. correct me if I'm wrong?
 

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yes, I have it right. the spring loaded breaker is for breaking the glaze and the ball type is for a finish after boring. it also says that it if the factory cross hatches are visible it's not necessary.
 

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A good ball type hone does a hell of alot nicer job than a deglazer though...Sometimes the stones on the delgazer are made or get warn a little different so they sometimes tend to miss some areas and don't leave a very nice crosshatch...my deglazer wasn't brand new either though...I'd just rather start fresh with thoroughly cleaned up cylinder walls...If this thread would have been posted a couple of days ago I could have shown some before and after pics of a deglazer vs ball hone...ah too late already honed...
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
The term honing always gets used, but its deglazing. Honing is a precise procedure of finishing a cylinder that was purposely bored under spec. (say .005) and then is honed out to the proper spec. (.010, these are not real numbers)

The way it was explained to me is that it's absolutely necessary to deglaze even if there's crosshatches so that the ring correctly seat to the cylinder. the rings actually get filed down to contour to the bore giving you a tighter seal.
 

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Ball type hones suck, everyone that thinks it does such a nicer job because of the result finishes appearence isn't understanding what's going on. The balls are spreading out and refinishing everything in the cylinder, you don't want that. You only want to hone the raised plateaus, think about it - do you want to hone down the already lower spots even more, or take down the higher ridges? The 3 legged hones are the absolute cheapest setup I'd use, but sunnen makes a way better tool that's exactly what a machine shop would use, but setup to be used in a drill to diy. It costs so much you might as well just take it to a machine shop to have the work done if you aren't going to be doing this more than 1-2 times.

Am I saying the ball setup won't work, no. I'm sure lots of people have used them and had no issues, but this is what I've learned and the pretty simple conclusions I've come up with, that alot of old racers have too. Just my 2 cents...
 

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Ball type hones suck, everyone that thinks it does such a nicer job because of the result finishes appearence isn't understanding what's going on. The balls are spreading out and refinishing everything in the cylinder, you don't want that. You only want to hone the raised plateaus, think about it - do you want to hone down the already lower spots even more, or take down the higher ridges? The 3 legged hones are the absolute cheapest setup I'd use, but sunnen makes a way better tool that's exactly what a machine shop would use, but setup to be used in a drill to diy. It costs so much you might as well just take it to a machine shop to have the work done if you aren't going to be doing this more than 1-2 times.

Am I saying the ball setup won't work, no. I'm sure lots of people have used them and had no issues, but this is what I've learned and the pretty simple conclusions I've come up with, that alot of old racers have too. Just my 2 cents...
Dont get what you're saying really but anyways from known fact and use of the Ball Hone is the best to use and gives you the best finish compared to putting the block on the honing machine, which is the only thing better than ball honing.

The three leg hone is the one which doesnt do the best job as it skips spots, when you're honing a cylinder wall you want it to be completly leveled so that the rings can seat properly and not have any variation of the cylinder walls to deal with.

The Ball hone also leave the best cross hatch finish which is what is needed to seat new rings.
 

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There's high and low spots in the cylinder wall like a mountain range, and the ball hone stretches out and gets all high and low spots leaving you with a visually great looking finish. Like I said, it might work fine for you, but why do you want to take down the lower valleys even more? You want to take down the high tops and leave the low valleys alone. The long straight legs will ride on the high spots instead of dipping down into the lows like the balls will. You still get a finish that will seat rings, and not take down the low valleys even more. Instead of the rings doing the final finishing like the old days, the finish is closer to what it would be when broken in, so there's less wear on the rings when you break it in and you get longer life out of them too.

Also, you said the ball hone is best 'compared to putting the block on the honing machine'. Like I said before, the sunnen tool is the EXACT same thing the machine at a shop is, just setup for a drill. So you said it yourself, its better than the ball/flex hone.

Sunnen tool:



Machine shop equipment

 

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Discussion Starter #12
I used a flex hone yesterday and it worked fine.... I'm bouts to use it on my other block that I'm building that was measured with a dial bore gauge and I'll see its effect on the low spots. only the top has .0007 - .001 wear.
 

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do us a favor, run the ball hone in cyl #1 and then in cyl #4 use the three stone hone, post up the difference in tolerences in at least three spots starting from the bottom, then middle and finally the top of the cylinder walls
 

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yeah, um I don't have the the spring loaded type. plus the cylinders are so clean already I'm only going to take very very little
 

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first off yall are wrong except some of the info guest was saying. first you should use the stones to cut away all the high spots in the cylinder. then finish it up with the ball type to give the better cross hatching. i learned this from my father who builds hot rods so i would believe him before anything. also if i was anybody i would send it off to the machine shop and have the true up the cylinders because as the walls wear they tend to become egg shaped so i would rather have over bore to the next step and be done with it.
 

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I'd venture to say its not even a measureable difference, but I'm still gonna stick with a machine shop or buy the sunnen tool. Just do your research and try things out firsthand, come to your own conclusions. I'm just tossing out what I've had experience with, I used the sunnen tool since I had access to it and that motor hasn't used any oil or smoked in the past 500-1000 miles on it. Hopefully do a compression test and dyno it in the next couple of weeks. For what it's worth, this is what I've been learning from an ASE master tech with countless years of experience...
 

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first off yall are wrong except some of the info guest was saying. first you should use the stones to cut away all the high spots in the cylinder. then finish it up with the ball type to give the better cross hatching. i learned this from my father who builds hot rods so i would believe him before anything. also if i was anybody i would send it off to the machine shop and have the true up the cylinders because as the walls wear they tend to become egg shaped so i would rather have over bore to the next step and be done with it.
that's a little harsh, nobody is wrong, just everyone has it partially right. Pretty much I'd say it all boils down to operator knowledge. Anybody can fuck up a hone job regardless of what method they use. Bottom line, if you don't know how to do it, take it to the machine shop
 

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Bottom line, if you don't know how to do it, take it to the machine shop
QFT, I've been taught how to do it and I'll still probably just take my stuff to a machine shop when I no longer have access to the tools to DIY. It doesn't cost that much money and you're getting alot better finish from someone with years of experience.
 

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Honing isnt really rocket science, i may not be a hot rod builder nor ASE master tech but i have a lot of hands on knowledge when it comes to machining and block preperation. I went to school for automotive and thats the field i work in. Yes that still doesnt mean much cause we all are learning but from seeing the hone job first hand from both the machine and flex ball hone and reading what the books said and actually doing it, i realised the ball type gave a better finish and worked better as well.

When it comes to cylinder walls you want no low or high spots and the balls dont wear down the low spots as long as u keep the hone centered and u arent rubbing it on one side of the cylinder wall. You guys need to also keep in mind honing is the finish touch after the cylinder has been bored it really doesnt remove much if any material at all just the build up of glaze on the walls. So if there are high spots that are visable and obvious then it needs to be bored out. Next thing is, you dont need to hone the entire cylinder, the only portion that needs honing is where the rings come in contact with, so measuring the bottom of the bore before and after a hone job is pointless....

Which ever tool gives you the best finish and best cross hatch is the one to always use.

As for ring break in, that also depends on ring end gap and ring material, some need more exact ring end gaps so that it has enough tension and some need a cylinder wall with a rougher surface finish to break in properly
 
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