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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi, thanks in advance for any help here. I've owned many Hondas and am a true supporter of all things Honda. However I have absolutely zero experience with anything d-series. I've owned all B and H series.

My interest here is all related to asphalt oval racing. Pure track use, no emission, etc.

This class of cars can be any 4cyl NA, 2wd car basically. However the entire class consist of about 20 h23 preludes and b18b1 integras.

I have been running a integra with a b18b1. We have had a ton of success and I'm bored with it. I've been playing with the idea of challenging myself with a different build. A EG coupe with a d16y7.

Here's the class engine guidelines ( the important ones)
-no vtec
- stock appearing
* stock type em/im/tb - can be any Honda factory part appearance wise.

The rule I'm trying to exploit I guess here is 1lb per engine cc. Add 200lbs for DOHC.

This means the integra must weigh in at 2000# and the preludes 2500#.
This means the eg coupe with a 1.6 sohc could weigh in at 1600#.... 900lbs less than the preludes!

My question is I still think I'm going to need around 140 bhp to pull this car out of the turns competitively. Can I get close to 140bhp (or more!) with a n/a non vtec sohc b16 setup here? Reliability is of no concern conpared to "daily driving". The car runs one night a week for about a 20min feature and a shorter qualifying race. Even with no real knowledge I'm expecting to need a custom ground cam, head with, valve train upgrade and hc Pistons..... I would like to leave bottom end alone if possible. I'm expecting to spend $ but I'd like to keep it conservative.

Looking for specifics on places or people to have do the cam/head/im/tb work.

Also on a side note I'm very confident in being able to get a EG coupe to 1600lbs no problem. Even with the best cage in the field we have a 1994 teg weighing 2100lbs with me in it.

Again thanks for any input!
 

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\/Your Mom Was Here\/
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Why are you stuck using non vtec? The vtec head would allow you to reach your HP goal allot easier. You can port a Z6 IM or get a Edelbrok performer X. Use a b-series TB (still looks OEM).

There is another person on here asking very similar questions named TommyGunn, you can see where my 1st post came from.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I hypothetically can run a vtec head casting.... the class rules are just no variable valve or cam timing. I actually have no issue running vtec as I'm coming in 40-50hp down, but with no way to hide the solinoid someone would notice and complain. So... Not sure what my best option is as far as that goes.

And that's cool, I figured someone else had asked a similar ?.... Just ironic his user name is Tommygunn lol
 

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I'll tell you the same thing I told the last guy who wanted to build a y7 circle track car . . .

VTEC is a waste of time with the motor spending most of it's life in the 4000/5000-7000RPM range (depending on length of track).

However, the camshaft choices for the y7 are incredibly limited. You cannot regrind the lobes much because the rocker arm geometry goes to crap quickly. I had to machine my own cam from 2" round bar because I wanted to be 8500RPM+

The only other option is to lock VTEC and still run a z6/y8 head since there's quite a few camshaft options for those.

On a circle track engine, I'd be very tempted to go with the y8 intake regardless of the head.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I'll tell you the same thing I told the last guy who wanted to build a y7 circle track car . . .

VTEC is a waste of time with the motor spending most of it's life in the 4000/5000-7000RPM range (depending on length of track).

However, the camshaft choices for the y7 are incredibly limited. You cannot regrind the lobes much because the rocker arm geometry goes to crap quickly. I had to machine my own cam from 2" round bar because I wanted to be 8500RPM+

The only other option is to lock VTEC and still run a z6/y8 head since there's quite a few camshaft options for those.

On a circle track engine, I'd be very tempted to go with the y8 intake regardless of the head.

Could you explain "locking" the vtec.... like I said I don't have a problem just running a complete y8 or z6 ... I just can't have any visible signs of the vtec so there can't be any solinoid or external oil lines, etc. If I could run a block off plate and have it locked in high vtec then I don't see a problem... The cars don't really turn less than 4500rpm except under caution or pace laps.
 

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\/Your Mom Was Here\/
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Vtec killer is locking the cam in vtec and not using the low side. This would help you stay in the regs of your racing as well as you can just leave the solenoid unhooked or blocked off. You can flip the pins for the vtec to lock it in but I would get the pins designed for this as they have more material to them.
 

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Locking vtec isn't a secret though to tech at least in scca idk...
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
If I were to use a y8/z6 and locked the high vtec with the pins pins what wouls be my best option for the ecu situation? I'm guessing it would throw a code or whatever and not run high vtec fuel.

Am I going to need to switch to obd1 for all this?
 

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you do not need to go obd1 but it will make the entire process much easier. Staying obd0 means your going to need to use turboedit which in and of itself is not a bad program but is very time intensive, glitchy and primitive compared to the offerings of obd1. Bascially if you stay obd0 your going to be on the low cam map all the time so it will not look for vtec. What your looking to do is get either a z6/y8 head swap the rockers over to a y7(on a y8) or lock the rockers on a z6 and put in a fairly large cam that can support the rpm's your looking to achieve both z6 and y8 flow about the same when ported so choose whatever you have on hand/can find rather than looking for a particular head. However a y8 has better quench pads, higher compression stock and interchanges with the y7 quite readily.

Locking vtec would probably not throw a code because there is nothing that would tell it that vtec was engaged/disengaged. The issue would be that you would not be injecting enough fuel down low and below 4500ish rpm's for the extra air being let into the combustion chamber with the locked lobes. Because your locking lobes i would say to keep it obd0, run turboedit and tune on the low cam maps only.

Ive seen guys lock the rockers with holes drilled through the rockers and bolts put through the whole thing. I would suggest the vtec killer pins that they sell because its less mass than a bolt.

Now can you reach above 140hp yes you can, but how deep are you pockets and what are your limitations. your going to need to raise the compression, bore it out as much as you can, have somone do a good port job on the head and get a good cam. Internals are going to be a must since your going to need higher rpm's than with your b18/b20 counterparts to help squeeze some more out of each gear and hopefully some horespower. rods and pistons will secure your bottom end and that would work out because it only needs to be stock "appearing" correct? Crower maxi-lite rods would fit the bill nicely with a set of hyperutectic or forged pistons of your deciding. i highly suggest calling a couple of piston and cam manufactures and getting there recommendations on what piston/cam combo to run with. Stroking to a 1.7 or even a 1.8 is another option but the rabbit hole gets deeper from there.
 

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If I were to use a y8/z6 and locked the high vtec with the pins pins what wouls be my best option for the ecu situation? I'm guessing it would throw a code or whatever and not run high vtec fuel.

Am I going to need to switch to obd1 for all this?
carb :)

 

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Wait so one can do the reverse of my notec project and put the y8 rockers and cam in the y7 head then lock it in vtec to have a super sleeper head?!!
 

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Wait so one can do the reverse of my notec project and put the y8 rockers and cam in the y7 head then lock it in vtec to have a super sleeper head?!!
i would take a close look at the alignment of the vtec inlet ports on the lost motion assembly and make sure lubrication oil doesnt bleed out of the vtec side for some odd reason. I dont see any reason why it wouldnt work aside from possible collision issues with the casting in the head against the intake/exhaust low cam lobes.
 

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File that away as a fun leftover parts project... But dude that would be his answer right there w minimal effort or cost.
 

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File that away as a fun leftover parts project... But dude that would be his answer right there w minimal effort or cost.
it would be much easier but also put him at a major disavantage seeing as the stock y8 head flows much better stock, the y7 head has probably the smallest ports out of all the d16's along with a very weak cam.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I think I'll plan on using the y8 head assembly no matter what for the porting.

The issue is not being able to run active vtec.... I also have no need for vtec so not sure how important the y8 is other than for the porting-which is extremely important in itself.

Would running a y7 272 grind cam in a y8 head make sense or be possible?

Also I'm planning on having head milled,p&p, whatever Pistons I need to bump comp... Def a cam upgrade (not sure if bigger than a 272 would make sense?) , upgraded tb (b16?) im/em.... The only part I have zero idea on, as in don't understand at all is the engine management at that point....

** I can run track fuel which is Sunoco 110 regarding cam/comp/timing**

I know I'm going to need more fuel. I'm thinking obd1 chipped would be easiest from what I've researched, but do I need to find someone local to tune it? Or can I provide build specs to someone and send it out??

Money isn't an extreme concern as I have access to whatever y7 and y8 engine / parts I need. I don't mind spending some on machine work/tuning. Just looking for a basic plan so I can network with whoever I need to and get this moving.

Thank you cervan for all your help/knowledge/time. I appreciate it.
 

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BATSLOMAN GIVES NO FUCKS.
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I think I'll plan on using the y8 head assembly no matter what for the porting.

The issue is not being able to run active vtec.... I also have no need for vtec so not sure how important the y8 is other than for the porting-which is extremely important in itself.

Would running a y7 272 grind cam in a y8 head make sense or be possible?

Also I'm planning on having head milled,p&p, whatever Pistons I need to bump comp... Def a cam upgrade (not sure if bigger than a 272 would make sense?) , upgraded tb (b16?) im/em.... The only part I have zero idea on, as in don't understand at all is the engine management at that point....

** I can run track fuel which is Sunoco 110 regarding cam/comp/timing**

I know I'm going to need more fuel. I'm thinking obd1 chipped would be easiest from what I've researched, but do I need to find someone local to tune it? Or can I provide build specs to someone and send it out??

Money isn't an extreme concern as I have access to whatever y7 and y8 engine / parts I need. I don't mind spending some on machine work/tuning. Just looking for a basic plan so I can network with whoever I need to and get this moving.

Thank you cervan for all your help/knowledge/time. I appreciate it.
I'll tell you the same thing I told the last guy who wanted to build a y7 circle track car . . .

VTEC is a waste of time with the motor spending most of it's life in the 4000/5000-7000RPM range (depending on length of track).

However, the camshaft choices for the y7 are incredibly limited. You cannot regrind the lobes much because the rocker arm geometry goes to crap quickly. I had to machine my own cam from 2" round bar because I wanted to be 8500RPM+

The only other option is to lock VTEC and still run a z6/y8 head since there's quite a few camshaft options for those.

On a circle track engine, I'd be very tempted to go with the y8 intake regardless of the head.

http://www.d-series.org/forums/engine-building/286242-circle-track-y8-engine-build.html

http://www.d-series.org/forums/naturally-aspirated/257906-enduro-d16-non-vtec.html

http://www.d-series.org/forums/engine-building/163050-suggestions-engine-build.html
 

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I think you should stop fucking around with locking vtec and whatnot and just run a PM3 head that has been sliced a bunch.

fully stock d16a6's have put down over 100whp with no tuning.

slicing a PM3 head and running a reground cam and slapping a good adjustable cam gear will EASILY net you over 140whp with good tuning.

you can use OBD0 for tuning. its not super glitchy, else acidbeaver/Matt would not be so gun-hoe on it
 

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I think you should stop fucking around with locking vtec and whatnot and just run a PM3 head that has been sliced a bunch.

fully stock d16a6's have put down over 100whp with no tuning.

slicing a PM3 head and running a reground cam and slapping a good adjustable cam gear will EASILY net you over 140whp with good tuning.

you can use OBD0 for tuning. its not super glitchy, else acidbeaver/Matt would not be so gun-hoe on it
i would say its between swapping y7 rockers or locking vtec on the stock y8 rockers. Skimming an a6 head would be a good option if he has the head.

p29 pistons, stock rods with arp bolts and shotpeened rods with valve springs will net you a decent 140+hp. the only reason im suggesting p29's is because he said he can get 110 octane fuel, i wouldnt suggest it otherwise, his comp will be 14+
 
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