[dfb399]

Well, I bumped a dead thread trying to get more information on this topic.
And since its now closed, I'll create a NEW one (Isn't that the opposite mentality, of like every Forum.. ?) I digress.

I have researched my eyes bloody, and still can't find a Company that offers either a Performance Cam., or Re-grind service, for the D16Y7.
'Y8's, Quite the number of choices, but that doesn't matter for obvious reasons.

I've, heavily, considered Delta for a 272 Re-grind. However, reading more into them, I don't think its a wise decision.
Then again, that was 8 years ago..
Anyone dealt with Delta, any later than 2020? Trying to get completely rule these guys out, or determine they got their shit straightened out since.

Thanks,
-Dustin

 

[slo_eg8]

have you heard of rocket?

Rocket Motorsports

 

[dfb399]

have you heard of rocket?

Rocket Motorsports

I have not. I did check out their website, some great Products! Excellent Machine work to boot.
They do not have any non-VTEC, D-series Camshafts listed, but I will definitely inquire.

I am not against a Re-grind either, provided it’s done correctly, with Proper process/tooling, and includes a Cam. card, lol.

 

[mattliston]

Just keep in mind, unless it is worth the extra 5-10hp you might get, the factory camshaft does pretty well.

Little extra compression, some creative casting cleanup on the intake ports, skimming around the injector footprint on whatever intake you run, and you can open up a decent chunk of upper rpm power, midrange, and even maintain most of your low rpm power.




you can do a basic reground camshaft search, and while honda stuff wont always pop up, as long as the company knows which direction the motor spins (in this case counter-clockwise) they can do their job if they are talented enough.

delta, web, rocket, couple others still out and about.

 

[dfb399]

Just keep in mind, unless it is worth the extra 5-10hp you might get, the factory camshaft does pretty well.

Little extra compression, some creative casting cleanup on the intake ports, skimming around the injector footprint on whatever intake you run, and you can open up a decent chunk of upper rpm power, midrange, and even maintain most of your low rpm power.

I’ve started to lean more towards this mentality.
I’ve got 10.2:1 compression (using PM6 pistons), ‘Y8 Intake, using a B-series (60mm) Throttle body, and I have the 1320 4-2-1 Header (Longer primaries, 2.5” collector and exhaust).
The Head and Intake are untouched as far as porting goes (well the Throttle body inlet is matched to 60mm, but that’s all).

I’ll be pulling the head soon to, Re-repair, the spark plug thread on cylinder 1 (doesn’t leak, but the threads are definitely fubared).
When I do, I might have another .005-.010” taken off the head to get me closer to 10.5:1. And/or going with a thinner Headgasket. Using the OEM, .037” unit now. Might swap it for a .030”.
I have Fuel system capacity (and availability), to tune it on E85 as well, which from the looks of it, might net me the same gain as adding a Cam.

 

[Jimster480]

I’ve started to lean more towards this mentality.
I’ve got 10.2:1 compression (using PM6 pistons), ‘Y8 Intake, using a B-series (60mm) Throttle body, and I have the 1320 4-2-1 Header (Longer primaries, 2.5” collector and exhaust).
The Head and Intake are untouched as far as porting goes (well the Throttle body inlet is matched to 60mm, but that’s all).

I’ll be pulling the head soon to, Re-repair, the spark plug thread on cylinder 1 (doesn’t leak, but the threads are definitely fubared).
When I do, I might have another .005-.010” taken off the head to get me closer to 10.5:1. And/or going with a thinner Headgasket. Using the OEM, .037” unit now. Might swap it for a .030”.
I have Fuel system capacity (and availability), to tune it on E85 as well, which from the looks of it, might net me the same gain as adding a Cam.

Why spend so much for no VTEC? It's just so much money spent to make no power? These D series engines don't make much power N/A in the first place but non-VTEC just adds insult to injury here..

 

[mattliston]

To make no power?
D series engines do not need vtec to make power numbers.


vtec on a d series means you have DRIVABILITY. But if the main focus is horsepower numbers, getting rid of vtec means less rotating mass, which means more power and less friction.


An easy example of this, and very cheap, is to compare the d16y7 and d16y8 engines. Toss the factory d16y8 intake manifold and exhaust manifold onto a bone stock d16y7, and it makes pretty much the same power at a slgihtly lower compression.

Use the Y8 head and lock the vtec arms to the high cam profile, and you have more compression and more power than the Y8 you just scavenged from.

Vtec is drivability on a D series.

Even the F series engines prove you dont need vtec. 90-93 2.2 sohc heads flow better than some of the K20 heads.

 

[Jimster480]

To make no power?
D series engines do not need vtec to make power numbers.


vtec on a d series means you have DRIVABILITY. But if the main focus is horsepower numbers, getting rid of vtec means less rotating mass, which means more power and less friction.


An easy example of this, and very cheap, is to compare the d16y7 and d16y8 engines. Toss the factory d16y8 intake manifold and exhaust manifold onto a bone stock d16y7, and it makes pretty much the same power at a slgihtly lower compression.

Use the Y8 head and lock the vtec arms to the high cam profile, and you have more compression and more power than the Y8 you just scavenged from.

Vtec is drivability on a D series.

Even the F series engines prove you dont need vtec. 90-93 2.2 sohc heads flow better than some of the K20 heads.

Drivability is key though because PEAK numbers are just PEAK numbers. To have a Non-VTEC setup making power; it will then make no torque at the lower RPM so its powerband will be only up top. This is why it makes no sense because the reality is that NA D series makes no power. Its 2023 and tons of cars are making 600-1000WHP with bolt on's and a D series NA is making 100-115WHP.
SO to BUILD for NA to make such tiny power numbers makes no sense. You might as well have VTEC and get all the drivability and torque curve you can and then the highest cam profile for the max power at the higher RPM range.

 

[dfb399]

FWIW, I have zero drivability issues with my High-ish compression 'Y7.
Furtherly, its only tuned by me, which has been 'learn as I go' process. So, I won't stand behind "Drivability" is not present, nor is VTEC required to get successful drivability. I drive the thing 70 miles a day, minimum, and never have I experienced 'poor' drivability.

To be completely transparent:
This engine was built with A turbo in mind, and outside of a few, spendy Stainless mandrels/tubing, I have just about a complete turbo kit. However, due to financial reasons, I put that kit development on hold, until I can swing the $ associated with my downpipe & Re-circ. tube (no stupid "dump pipes" here), Fabrication.
So, in the mean time, I wanted to maximize my current set up.
Including, but not limited to, a good Camshaft, and mild head-work to improve 'Low-lift' flow, some more tuning time, and maybe, introducing E85.
And, from what I've gathered (minus a camshaft), I have those few things to pursue.

...To have a Non-VTEC setup making power; it will then make no torque at the lower RPM so its powerband will be only up top..

What? News to me.
but, maybe I missed it somewhere over the last, idk, 12 years?

 

[transzex]

I'd hate to show a D15 non VTEC with a flat TQ curve, but that was a decade ago.

 

[mattliston]

Drivability is key though because PEAK numbers are just PEAK numbers. To have a Non-VTEC setup making power; it will then make no torque at the lower RPM so its powerband will be only up top. This is why it makes no sense because the reality is that NA D series makes no power. Its 2023 and tons of cars are making 600-1000WHP with bolt on's and a D series NA is making 100-115WHP.
SO to BUILD for NA to make such tiny power numbers makes no sense. You might as well have VTEC and get all the drivability and torque curve you can and then the highest cam profile for the max power at the higher RPM range.

You do realize that a completely stock d16y8, from the engine air filter, to the tailpipe, 100% stock, can make 100-110whp just tuned by someone with honda experience, right?

 

[transzex]

You do realize that a completely stock d16y8, from the engine air filter, to the tailpipe, 100% stock, can make 100-110whp just tuned by someone with honda experience, right?

and that is with the VTEC not even working.....

A6/Y8 mini-me......

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[Jimster480]

You do realize that a completely stock d16y8, from the engine air filter, to the tailpipe, 100% stock, can make 100-110whp just tuned by someone with honda experience, right?

Yep; and all the N/A mods add a whole 20-30WHP on average. Back in the day I had many friends try to go down this path and spend $2k to literally put down 140WHP on the Dyno and the car idled like complete crap and things like AC couldn't work anymore because the engine didn't have enough vacuum at idle.... and then they had to get vacuum pumps for the brake boosters because their vacuum was like 3.
Doing a build with VTEC doesn't really add more HP up top with most cam setups because you get limited by the size/duration of the lobes anyway and the lack of the VTEC on the exhaust side. However it does mean that something that is more "mild" can be set up on the non-VTEC side.

FWIW, I have zero drivability issues with my High-ish compression 'Y7.
Furtherly, its only tuned by me, which has been 'learn as I go' process. So, I won't stand behind "Drivability" is not present, nor is VTEC required to get successful drivability. I drive the thing 70 miles a day, minimum, and never have I experienced 'poor' drivability.

To be completely transparent:
This engine was built with A turbo in mind, and outside of a few, spendy Stainless mandrels/tubing, I have just about a complete turbo kit. However, due to financial reasons, I put that kit development on hold, until I can swing the $ associated with my downpipe & Re-circ. tube (no stupid "dump pipes" here), Fabrication.
So, in the mean time, I wanted to maximize my current set up.
Including, but not limited to, a good Camshaft, and mild head-work to improve 'Low-lift' flow, some more tuning time, and maybe, introducing E85.
And, from what I've gathered (minus a camshaft), I have those few things to pursue.



What? News to me.
but, maybe I missed it somewhere over the last, idk, 12 years?

To me it seems like the same money you would spend on E85 + a cam would be less than a downpipe and a dump tube recirc. That stuff literally is a few hundred dollars typically from a local exhaust shop. My dump tube cost me $30 to make (mine isn't recirc, but it is the same concept just a bit more welding) and then the downpipe around $250 because I wanted a longer flex section.

 

[dfb399]

To me it seems like the same money you would spend on E85 + a cam would be less than a downpipe and a dump tube recirc. That stuff literally is a few hundred dollars typically from a local exhaust shop. My dump tube cost me $30 to make (mine isn't recirc, but it is the same concept just a bit more welding) and then the downpipe around $250 because I wanted a longer flex section.

Please scroll up and Read, and also Re-read some sections. You've missed a bit of info.
I am not going into fabrication specifics, mostly because I don't have the energy to get you on the same page as me.
You can see it when its complete, what a deal! Then, I'd be happy to educate